Multimedia Toolkit 2/Multimedia Toolkit 2.iso/imagine/text/archive.07

Text File | 1993-03-12 | 192.9 KB | 4,394 lines

IMAGINE archive: collected off of [e-mail]

ARCHIVE VII
Jun. 6 '91 - Jul. 14 '91

If you have questions or problems with this file, email Marvin Landis
at [e-mail]

note: each message seperated by a '##'

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Subject: Imagine:A Guided Tour tape
Date: Thu,  6 Jun 91 23:38:22 CDT
From: mit-eddie!harvard!scubed!pro-party.cts.com!seanc (Sean Cunningham)

I certainly hope that Rick's tape is much better than this one.

If any of you had been thinking about buying it, I'd think twice.

It goes into VERY little detail with each of the different modules, unlike
the Turbo Silver tape that came out a couple of years ago.

And if it had at least contained a slew of images and animations the fact
that the tutorial section stunk could be negligable...but it doesn't.  The
finished renderings are washed out, and it's very hard to tell the
difference between the 12bit and 24bit renderings, except for sharpness.

About the only thing that impressed me at all about the tape was the
wireframe animations from Victor Osaka (I think).  VERY detailed, very
smooth.  I'd really like to see some finished renderings from it.

Disappointing.

Sean
                                        /\
 RealWorld: Sean Cunningham            /  \     "Doing our business is what
      INET: [e-mail]   VISION                Amigas are for."
     Voice: [phone]             \  /
                                 //     \/      "Holy #@*!" - any Psygnosis
    KEEP THE COMPETITION UNDER \X/   GRAPHICS                   game player

##

Subject: NFF, TTDDD
Date: Sat, 08 Jun 91 11:36:57 EDT
From: [e-mail]

Juan, there does indeed exist an NFF->Imagine conversion program.
There is also an OFF->Imagine, another popular format. I wrote
conversion programs long ago when I wanted to start a library of
Imagine objects.  You'll find that I've already hunted on the net and
nearly all of the NFF and OFF objects available have already been
converted.  The Imagine versions can be found on hubcap.clemson.edu in
pub/amiga/incoming/IMAGINE/OBJECTS.  There is well over 100 of them.

If you REALLY want the code, I can e-mail it to you. It's quick
and dirty, without much error checking or deference to the user.

-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

##

Subject: Re: NFF to IMAGINE
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 91 14:18:01 -0500
From: Donald Richard Tillery Jr <[e-mail]>

Is the Linotype Library of Adobe fonts a commercial product?  I have about
70+ Adobe fonts I got from Compuserve, but I'm always looking for more.

Rick Tillery ([e-mail])

##

Subject: Looking for conversion program
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 91 14:54:59 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Dave Schreiber)

     Does anyone know of a program to convert 12-bit Imagine-style pictures
to HAM?  In particular, the program must be able to lock the palette when
making the conversions, so that if I want to convert a series of pictures
into an animation, I'll be able to insure that they all use the same
palette for the base colors.  ASDG's Art Department comes to mind
immediately;  can anyone tell me if it, or the professional version, fits
my requirements?

     I'm looking for a program to do this because Imagine doesn't support
palette locking, like Turbo Silver did, which makes it hard to generate
anim OPT 5 animations.    They might support it in the future, but when I
talked to a customer service person at Imagine, he seemed to be of the
opinion that palette-locking should be handled by the animation player(?),
and that since anim opt 5 didn't support it, it was therefore a problem
with anim opt 5 and not with Imagine.  He said they might consider adding
palette-locking to Imagine in the future, but he didn't sound too
enthusiastic about it.    Currently, I'm using Turbo Silver V3, which does
support palette-locking, and which can load Imagine RGBN files and save
them as HAM, but it's inconvienient, to say the least.

Thanks.

-Dave Schreiber
[e-mail]

##

Subject: Re: Looking for conversion program
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 91 14:22:05 -0500
From: Donald Richard Tillery Jr <[e-mail]>

Yes, the Art Department and Art Department Professional will allow you
to lock the palette and read in those Imagine files for conversion to
HAM.  However, a better bet might be to get Superview 3.1 by David Grothe
which handles multiple palette anims.  If you are forced to use another
anim player, then TAD or ADPro are a good answer.  You can also do the same
thing with the Digi-View 4.0 software if you have access to that.

Rick Tillery ([e-mail])

##

Subject: Planets
Date: Sun, 09 Jun 91 20:31:06 EDT
From: [e-mail]

Here's a very useful trick for making stellar objects like planets or
especially the Moon:

It would be very nice to be able to model these object in Imagine,
especially for space scenes, or starry nights. It would be especially
cool if, in the case of the Moon, the crescent shadow were properly
modelled.  It would also be nice to have an accurate, cratered
surface. Well, you can easily make an object that has both qualities.
There are a LOT of NASA pictures available, especially as GIFS, which
convert to HAM or 24-bit Amiga pictures pretty easily. If you could
map these pictures onto a sphere, shadows would fall on the objects
realistically. The problem is wrapping the picture onto a sphere- the
forshortened perspective near the rim of the picture really looks
wrong if you try to do a normal sphere wrap.


The trick lies in how you map the pictures onto the sphere. YOU DO NOT
_WRAP_ WRAP THE IFF FILE ONTO THE SPHERE. Instead, you FLAT wrap it.
These pictures are essentially parallel projection views of the
surface; the coloring already has spherical rim foreshortening
implicit in it. If you FLAT wrap, these contours will align with the
sphere's contours nearly exactly. This means you can even rotate the
sphere slightly, and the craters, banding, etc. will move properly. Of
course, the angle of view at the rim of the planet will force the
image to lose detail there, but for turning small angles (like up to
20 degrees) the illusion is excellent.  Light falling on the sphere
will also cause the proper crescent shape to appear. Voila! Instant
planet model!

When making the IFF file, it is important to make sure the image
exactly fits onto the brush- it should extend all the way to the edge.
That is, if the circle/oval image is 500 pixels wide and 322 high, the
brush you wrap should also be 500 wide and 322 high. Then, when you
wrap the brush onto the sphere, you size the brush to cover the ENTIRE
sphere, and you know the positioning is accurate. See my tutorial on
brush wrapping if you need help on how to place brushes.  You don't
have to worry about the black background at the four corners on the
brush- they are mapped onto empty space, and don't show up.

If you are looking for pictures of stellar objects, an EXCELLENT source are the
GIFs on wuarchive.wustl.edu. They have pix of Jupiter, the Moon, the
Earth, and some of Voyager's pix (I forget which ones). The Art
Department Professional is ideally suited to converting the GIFs to IFF24's
and cropping the image so they take up the full size.

Just an idea that turned out well. I did a short anim of a Lunar eclipse
(where the Earth passes between the Sun and Moon) and it looked beautiful!
A Solar Eclipse (like the one this July) is considerably less interesting,
since the Moon is invisible until it actually passes in front of the Sun.

Try it out! Saturn is next; the rings should be fun!

-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

##

Subject: Re: Looking for conversion program
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 91 11:15:41 EDT
From: [e-mail] (John J Humpal)

>      Does anyone know of a program to convert 12-bit Imagine-style pictures
> to HAM?  In particular, the program must be able to lock the palette when
> making the conversions, so that if I want to convert a series of pictures
> into an animation, I'll be able to insure that they all use the same
> palette for the base colors.  ASDG's Art Department comes to mind
> immediately;  can anyone tell me if it, or the professional version, fits
> my requirements?

    ASDG's The Art Dept. and Art Dept. Pro can both do the job for you.
But, as long as you're thinking of using TAD or ADPro, why don't you
generate your images in 24-bit IFF or RGBN, then let TAD/ADPro bring them
down to HAM?

>
> -Dave Schreiber
> [e-mail]
>

John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer

##

Subject: Re: NFF to IMAGINE
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 91 10:41:57 EDT
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

>     I just bought the Fundamentals of Interactive Computer graphics by
> Foley and Van Dam. I was wondering if any of you 3D programmers recommend
> this book or another.

Oh no, you got the old one. The book you bough WAS pretty much known as the
graphics bible but it has grown grossly out of date. It has been replaced
by:

    Computer Graphics: Principles and Practice (2nd Ed.), J.D. Foley,
      A. van Dam, S.K. Feiner, J.F. Hughes, Addison-Wesley 1990, ISBN
      0-201-12110-7

which has nearly double the pages (and information) that the first one had.
It is the new definative graphics bible. Other worthwhile texts include:

    Procedural Elements for Computer Graphics, David F. Rogers, McGraw
      Hill, ISBN 0-07-053534-5

    Three Dimensional Computer Graphics, Alan Watt, Addison-Wesley, ISBN
      0-201-15442-0

    Graphics Gems, Andrew Glassner (ed.), Acedemic Press 1990, ISBN
      0-12-286165-5

> Also, could someone explain SPHIGGS to me? What platform is
> this written for? If it includes C source, has anyone ported it to the Amiga?

I believe you mean SPHIGS which stands for Simple PHIGS (Programmer's
Hierarchical Interactive Graphics System). PHIGS is a graphics standard
like GKS and is not intended for any one platform. It is a large hulking
beast that pretty much gets in the way of high speed/high performance 3D
rendering. Computer Graphics: Principles and Practice (mentionned above)
devotes an entire chapter to SPHIGS. I don't know what sort of application
you are looking at, but PHIGS and SPHIGS are more geared toward CAD and
are not at all well suited for 3D animation.
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  |
| --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   |
|      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   |
|     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   |
|                                                                          |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

##

Subject: Re: Planets
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 91 15:40:11 EDT
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

> It would be very nice to be able to model these object in Imagine,
> especially for space scenes, or starry nights. It would be especially
> cool if, in the case of the Moon, the crescent shadow were properly
> modelled.

The reason Imagine and many other renderers out there don't accurately
model the lighting of planetary objects is because they are non-lambertian
reflectors. Most all lighting algorithms use a lambert lighting model because
it is typical of most surfaces. It is not true however of planetary surfaces
like the moon and using a lambertian model results in the appearance of
a giant ball of chalk (the crescent shadow is all wrong). For those who
care, the 2.0 update to Lightwave includes options for non-lambertian
lighting.
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  |
| --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   |
|      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   |
|     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   |
|                                                                          |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

##

Subject: Re: Planets
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 91 15:13:35 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Edward Chadez)

On Jun 10,  3:40pm, Mark Thompson wrote:
} Subject: Re: Planets
}
} > It would be very nice to be able to model these object in Imagine,
} > especially for space scenes, or starry nights. It would be especially
} > cool if, in the case of the Moon, the crescent shadow were properly
} > modelled.
}
} The reason Imagine and many other renderers out there don't accurately
} model the lighting of planetary objects is because they are non-lambertian
} reflectors. Most all lighting algorithms use a lambert lighting model because
} it is typical of most surfaces. It is not true however of planetary surfaces
} like the moon and using a lambertian model results in the appearance of
} a giant ball of chalk (the crescent shadow is all wrong).

I *have* sucessfully created psuedo crescents by placing the lighting to
the _rear_ of the object.  However, won't do at all for a scene where there
are objects in the "foreground" that need illumination.

} For those who
} care, the 2.0 update to Lightwave includes options for non-lambertian
} lighting.

Thanks for the tip, Mark.  Too bad, tho', that there isn't a non-lambertian
lighting method for Imagine (are you listening, Impulse?).

} |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
} |      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  |
} | --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   |
} |      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   |
} |     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   |
} |                                                                          |
}  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
}
}-- End of excerpt from Mark Thompson



Sincerely,
Ed Chadez

--
--//-------------------------------------------------------------------------
\X/ [e-mail]/Edward Chadez                  CARL Systems(303)861-5319
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

##

Subject: Does anyone know how...
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 91 16:33:36 PDT
From: Daryl T. Bartley <[e-mail]>

To get the effect of a CD as an object? So that all the reflections and colors
look right when it is moved around? I saw the CD's in Mark's Blender.av pic,
and was wondering how they were done...did you just digitize a CD and use it as
a flat object, or did you actually duplicate a CD as an object?

Just curious...

Daryl Bartley
[e-mail]

P.S. No big hurry replying either, I am probably going to have to render these
things on a friend's system if it is possible to do at all..:)

##

Subject: Bump map depth
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 91 19:46:30 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Dak Productions)

I know this newsgroup is for imagine but here's a question for Lightwave
which may be helpful to Imagine-ers as well.
On a bump map mapped on the Z axis is there any control other than the grey
scale to control the depth of the bumps? Velocity and Amplitute seem to have
no effect. Any help would be apprecitated.         DAK

##

Subject: Re: Does anyone know how...
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 91 09:30:19 EDT
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

Daryl T. Bartley writes:
>To get the effect of a CD as an object? So that all the reflections and colors
>look right when it is moved around? I saw the CD's in Mark's Blender.av pic,
>and was wondering how they were done..did you just digitize a CD and use it as
>a flat object, or did you actually duplicate a CD as an object?

Kinda cool lookin aint it. Yes, it was digitized from a real CD and image
mapped onto the surface of a disk object. I tried numerous effects to attempt
to mimic the look but nothing came close to a mapped image.  As for making it
look right when it is moved around, this is pretty much impossible with
current rendering software (that I know of) because nothing can duplicate real
world optics. One possibility however would be a procedural color spectrum
spread texture that would assign a color based on a 3D world location.  As the
suface is moved, it would pass through various points altering the color
spectum displayed. I had asked Allen Hastings about adding such a texture to
LightWave back when I did the Blender pic, but he has been pretty busy.
If you could code your own textures in Imagine, you might be able to do it.
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  |
| --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   |
|      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   |
|     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   |
|                                                                          |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

##

Subject: Re: Bump map depth
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 91 09:52:23 EDT
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

[e-mail] (Dak Productions) writes:
> I know this newsgroup is for imagine but here's a question for Lightwave
> which may be helpful to Imagine-ers as well.
> On a bump map mapped on the Z axis is there any control other than the grey
> scale to control the depth of the bumps? Velocity and Amplitute seem to have
> no effect. Any help would be apprecitated.

Velocity controls the rate at which the textural projection will move across
(through) the surface in an animation. Amplitude does contol bump height but
not for image mapped bumps, just the procedural ones like ripples. I have
already put in a request for the ability to specify the actual bump height
(using the image map as a modulator) and also allow an envelope to control
that height. I believe Imagine already has a setting for bump height in
addition to the image map.  The 2.0 release of LightWave will provide the
ability to morph surface attributes through an envelope (as well as load and
save them) and should also address the bump height setting. Also, the new
version includes cylindrical and spherical bump mapping (which was in the
manual I believe but didn't make it into the 1.0 release).
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  |
| --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   |
|      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   |
|     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   |
|                                                                          |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

##

Subject: Detail tutorial
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 91 23:19:01 EDT
From: [e-mail]

I really worked hard and finished the first Detail tutorial,
describing the basic commands of the editor. I won't have
much time to write for the next month or so (I'm moving to
California!) but this introduction to the Detail Editor is
definately enough to get things started.

I am sending the 71K tutorial in 3 seperate mail messages in
order to keep some mailers from choking on such a long
e-mail message.

Oh- my move will not affect the list at all- it will run without
a hitch since I'll keep it on the same machine at MIT. My E-mail
address will probably change soon, though. More about my move
sometime soon...

Enjoy the Detail tutorial!

-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

##

Subject: Intro Detail Tutorial (file 1 of 3)
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 91 23:35:30 EDT
From: [e-mail]

This file is a tutorial introduction to the Detail Editor. It
describes the way Imagine stores objects, how Imagine interacts with
you to show the objects you are building, how you can build and
manipulate these objects, and make complex objects formed of many
sub-objects.

A later tutorial will describe the more advanced features of the
Detail Editor which allows you to manipulate objects in much more
complex ways, like cutting one object with another, making outlines
and filling them with faces, defining objects by successive cross
sections, and bending objects around tubes and spheres, and
even using outlines as a lathe guide.

A third tutorial will be a more general discussion of the approaches
to object creation, discussing how to plan and actually build your
objects as opposed to what each menu item in the Detail Editor does.

The last two tutorials have not been written as of today (6/11/91) but
will be forthcoming in the next month or so. My previous tutorials
are on texture, brushmaps, the use of transparency and glass, the
Forms Editor, and the Project Editor.

----------------------

This tutorial is more basic than most of my others. I realize
that many people will be disappointed, but I feel it is necessary to
give an introduction describing how objects are defined and how the
standard controls in the all of the editors are used. New users will
GREATLY appreciate a description of the goals of the Detail Editor and
how objects are defined and used in Imagine before delving into a
description of the suboptions of each menu item. For those of you who
are looking for a more hard-core Detail tutorial, none to fear! It's
my next project, and it will should blend into a nice, logical
successor to this tutorial. Even those who scoff at this introduction
might want to read it anyway; there are a lot of subtle points
(especially about pick and select!) that are well worth learning
about.

This tutorial describes the Detail Editor in Imagine version 1.1. There
are only minor differences (Taut and Fracture) from version 1.0.


-----------







                   An Introduction to the Detail Editor
                         Last Revised 6/11/91
                           By Steven Worley

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                   I.  What are Imagine objects?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

When a computer program wants to draw a 3D object, it must have some
way of internally representing it. Some modelers store each object as
a bunch of 2 dimensional polygons- a 3D object is a formed from a
whole bunch of these polygons pasted together. A cube might be defined
as six 2D squares arranged in a group. Since our final picture just
has to LOOK like it is solid, defining the outer surface is usually
all we need to do to make it seem as if the objects ARE solid.

Any object can be defined as a bunch of flat polygons. Curved surfaces
like a sphere can use a lot of polygons in order to approximate the
surface closely; certain computer tricks (including a very important
one called Phong shading) can smooth out the surface even more. Most
of the 3D objects, or models, that you've ever seen in any 3D computer
graphic were defined as polygons. Sometimes advanced programs define
surfaces with a mathematical equation, or by a certain type of curve,
and sometimes a computer model will have certain objects it "knows"
how they should look (like a mathematically defined sphere or cone)
but most use polygons for definition, Imagine included.

All objects in Imagine are defined as a bunch of triangles. Nothing
more.  It is particularly easy for a computer to decide what a
triangle would look like when viewed as a 3D image. Any more complex
polygon (like a square or octagon) can be broken down into a bunch of
triangles pretty easily.  Having only one "shape" to deal with is
actually a convenience for us, as we don't have to worry about
questions of what type of polygons a certain object is made of, or how
to convert one type of polygon into another. The computer likes
dealing only with triangles because it can optimize it's renderer, the
program that actually draws the pictures, to expect and deal with just
one shape simple instead of 246 different ones.

Although an object is made of only triangles (called FACES) it has
points and edges which define where these faces go. If you think of a
simple triangle, it has 3 defining points at the corners, three edges
connecting these points, and one face which actually makes up the body
of the triangle. Imagine can better deal with the objects by defining
these sub-parts, and it allows us to manipulate the objects much more
easily.

Every object has a number of defined POINTS. Imagine understands an
EDGE to be a line segment that connects any two of these points. A
face is defined by naming the three edges that make it up. Instead of
storing nine numbers for each triangle (the X,Y,Z location of each
corner) it just names the edges, which in turn name the points. This
reduces the size of a description of an object considerably. It also
helps in editing objects, since if you move a point, each face that it
is part of will adjust itself to the include the new location of the
point. The other alternative would be to have each face manually
manipulated individually, which is obviously a big pain.

Think of a square. Imagine would store a square as two triangles that
share one edge together. The square would actually contain FIVE edges
(the four sides and the diagonal) and FOUR points (one at each of the
corners.) It would have two faces, or triangles.  A cube is stored as
twelve faces, formed by eighteen edges, which are in turn defined by
eight points.

This definition of objects actually gives us some extra leeway in how
we define our model. Imagine doesn't require your object to be
connected at all; that is, your object could be two completely separate
surfaces that never touch. You might want an object to be a flying
logo. The letters don't actually touch and form one solid object; they
are independent from each other. Imagine doesn't care; you can call
any collection of points, edges, and faces an object. Imagine also
gives you tools for splitting off part of an object (like a letter) or
joining two parts together.

Since this is a computer model and not a physical one, we can violate
physics and have objects self-intersect. You might overlap two spheres
half-way and join them together to form one object. You'll only see the
outer surface when you render the new double-sphere object.

There actually are two objects that Imagine does not define as a group
of points, edges, and faces: a perfect sphere and an infinite plane.
These are the only exceptions to the normal definition of objects in
Imagine. Well, OK, there's another. An axis containing NO points can
still be manipulated as an object. It certainly won't show up in a
render, but sometimes it's nice to use a lone axis as an invisible
object in certain cases. You can also use the axis as the start of a
brand new object.

There are certain "Editors" in Imagine that allow us to view and
manipulate objects in different ways. Some editors let you place
objects in scenes, or define how the objects change with time. The
Detail Editor is where objects are usually created and modified. It
allows low-level editing of objects; you can add points and faces by
hand, move them, delete old ones and in general be as picky as you
like in adjusting every point.

Defining objects point-by-point is obviously not very suited to
complex objects, sometimes with THOUSANDS of points. There are more
powerful controls that let you modify your object in more global ways.
You can add pre-made 'primitive' objects like a cylinder or a torus
(doughnut shape.)  These primitive objects have the points, edges, and
faces that define it already defined. There are certain tools that
let you draw an outline, say the profile of a chess pawn, which is
converted to a three-dimensional `spun' object, as if it was chiseled
out on a lathe. Other tools let you slice off parts of your object
using knives that you can build yourself. In general, object creation
is done with these powerful tools, and picky touch-ups are the only
time you grab and move individual points. A sculptor does not glue
sand grains together!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
               II. Looking at Stuff in the Detail Editor
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Detail Editor is the program that lets you manipulate and modify
objects in Imagine. Like the other editors (and any Amiga program, for
that matter) Imagine gets input and directions from you by either
moving the mouse and clicking it's buttons, or by typing on the
keyboard. Most advanced options use pull-down menus to select the
function you want to perform. An important trick, especially when you
start using Imagine a lot, is keyboard-equivalents. This lets you
select menu items via the keyboard, by pressing the right Amiga key
along with another letter or number. All of the keyboard equivalents
can be selected via pull-down menus, although not all menu items have
keyboard equivalents.  You'll find that learning the most used
commands' keyboard equivalents can save a LOT of time. Its quick and
easy to punch right-Amiga-o to zoom your view out; pulling the menu
down repeatedly is a pain. A few other commands (especially moving,
rotating, and scaling objects) use the keyboard to indicate what you
want to do (move, rotate, or scale) while simultaneously using the
mouse to control the extent of the transformation.

You can get into it from any point in Imagine by selecting the menu
item 'Detail Editor' from the Project pull-down menu.  The screen
should then split into four smaller windows with a thin status line at
the bottom of the screen and another at the top.

When you start up the Detail Editor, you'll see what is known as a
"Quad-View." Are four windows labeled "top", "front", "right", and
"perspective", which are different ways of viewing the object you are
manipulating. It is difficult to manipulate 3D objects with a 2D mouse
and a 2D screen, and the tri-view is a compromise that makes the best
of these unfortunate 2D restrictions.

The top, right, and front views show you the wire-frame skeleton of
the object you're editing. A wire-frame is a view of your object with
each edge shown as a line segment. Faces are NOT shown, so the object
looks like it's built from pieces of wire that join at the outside
edges of the object, hence the name wireframe. Wireframes have two
advantages; they are much faster to draw than "solid" models, and
since you can see _into_ the object, you can manipulate points and
edges on the interior of the object that you wouldn't normally see.

The top, right and front views are just that- a wireframe view of your
object shown from the three orthogonal (right angle) directions. There
is also a small axis at the bottom left corner of each view that shows
the world's X,Y,Z coordinate system. In Imagine, the X,Y,Z is defined
just like it is in mathematics- X is left to right, Y is in to out,
and Z is down to up.  Some 3D programs define Z to be in-and-out, so
note Imagine's difference.

There is an absolute "world" coordinate system defined by these axes.
You can select "Coordinates" from the Display menu, which will
continually display the coordinates of the mouse pointer in the
world's X, Y, and Z system. The units that it measures in are
arbitrary, but it is often convenient to call them "Imagine Units."
Objects tend to be on the order of 10 to 100 Imagine Units in size,
since this is a comfortable scale to deal with when we design
scenes to be rendered.

There is a grid shown in the three main windows. This grid is used to
give you a sense of scale, and can be turned on or off in the Display
menu.  The spacing between the lines can be set by choosing "Grid
Size", also from the Display window. The default is 20, which is a
reasonable starting size. Some commands let you use the grid to snap
objects to precise locations- these are the most common reasons you
want to change the grid size.

The fourth window (with no grid in it) is called the "perspective"
window, which allows you to view your object from any direction. You
can also change modes to view your object as a wireframe or as a
"solid" model, where the faces become opaque so that you cannot see
through your object. In this window, you CANNOT manipulate your
objects- it is a view only.

Each of the four windows can be quickly zoomed to take up the full
screen very easily by merely clicking on the tall narrow box to the
left of each view that contains the name of the window. The window
will expand to take up the entire screen, allowing you to have a
better view of whatever you're working on. To zoom back to the
quad-view, just click on the name to the left again. To go immediately
from a full screen display of one view to a full screen display of
another, you just click the name of the new view to the right. Being
able to see all four views at once is often an advantage, but so is
seeing a larger, more detailed view. This method allows you to quickly
and easily change how you look at your model.

Just to get a sense of how this works, pull down the menu item
'Functions' and select 'Add primitive'. Click on the 'Torus' button
and click on 'OK' to accept the default parameters. All this did was
make a pre-defined object that we can look at when we manipulate the
views.

You should see an object in all four of the windows. This is the same
object, just viewed from different directions. Remember the three main
views (Top, Front, and Right) all show a WIREFRAME view from their
respective directions, so the inside of the doughnut might look very
complex.

Perspective, the remaining view, also shows a wireframe view of the
doughnut. You can change the view by manipulating the two white
sliding boxes on the top and left of the window. The bottom white
slider lets you view from different directions AROUND the object. If
the slider is in the middle, you're looking at the front. If it's 3/4
of the way to the right, you're looking at the right hand side, and if
it's all the way in either direction, you're looking at the back. The
vertical slider on the right controls the ANGLE you're looking at the
object from. Centered is a level perspective, all the way up gives you
a straight-down view, and all the way down gives you a straight-up
view.  By combining these two sliders you can look at your object from
any direction.

You can change the perspective view by selecting 'wireframe' or
'solid' from the Display pull-down menu. Solid takes longer to show
your object, but removes the points that are hidden, getting rid of
the X-ray wireframe view. A final way of changing the perspective view
is by selecting 'shaded' from the Mode pull-down menu and zooming the
perspective view to the full screen. This shades the object in false
black and white colors which sometimes lets you see the shape of the
object more clearly.

There are a few commands that let you change your absolute vantage of
your object.  You can zoom your view (on all windows) in and out by
using 'zoom in' and 'zoom out' from the View menu. This lets you see
more of your object at once, or just a certain portion. Each zoom in
or out will double or halve the scale respectively. You can also
select a numerical zoom by selecting 'set zoom' in the View menu,
which allows more precise magnification levels by simply typing in a
number. Zoom in and zoom out are often used, so knowing the keyboard
equivalents of right-Amiga-i and right-Amiga-o can save a lot of time.

To scroll the views around, you can click in one of the three main
views, then use the arrow keys to move the view in whatever direction
you like. You'll notice that if you change one view, the others will
change as well- all of the views are linked so they show the same
volume of space. You can also scroll the view by telling Imagine where
you want the view centered. You select 'Re-center' from the View menu
and click on where you want the new center of your view to be. Usually
you click right in the middle of the object or area you're interested
in. The keyboard equivalent of right-Amiga-. (period) is very
convenient.

The display that Imagine shows you is very important, as it is your
interface in dealing with everything in the program. One important
option is found in the Display menu; it is called "interlace".
Interlace will change the screen resolution which the display uses. An
interlaced screen is 400 pixels high, whereas a non-interlaced screen
is only 200.  Unfortunately, the interlaced display will flicker on
many Amigas. An Amiga 3000 or a "flicker-fixer" equipped Amiga will be
able to use interlaced mode without the flicker. The interlaced mode
allows much more detail and more precise location of points, so it is
by far the preferred mode to work in. Even if you do have a flickering
display, it is probably worth the annoyance to have the extra
resolution.

A couple ways to reduce the flicker if you have it: you can muck with
the monitor's contrast and brightness, or you can change the screen
colors using the imagine.config file (see my Project tutorial). My
favorite solution is wearing sunglasses- it works very well indeed,
and you look cool while using your computer.

--------
(Continued in next file...)

##

Subject: Introductory Detail Tutorial (File 2 of 3)
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 91 23:49:06 EDT
From: [e-mail]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
               III. Moving Stuff in the Detail Editor
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Knowing how to move your views around is important, as when you're
manipulating an object you'll find yourself changing your viewpoints
around constantly. There is a whole new set of commands for moving
the OBJECTS in the editor around.

In order to manipulate an object, we either have to load an existing
one or start one from scratch. Imagine comes with several simple
pre-built objects called 'primitives' that are very convenient to use
as starting points for creating your own objects. Talking about these
primitives doesn't really belong at this point in the tutorial, but
it would be nice to be able to have something to look at and manipulate
as each of the viewing and manipulation commands are presented.

To make a primitive object, select 'add' in the Edit menu, and
'primitive' in the sub-menu. There are six simple shapes that Imagine
will automagically create for you. They are a sphere, a cylinder, a
cone, a disk, a plane, and a torus. When you select one, Imagine will
ask how many points the object should have.

With primitives like a sphere, the more points that define it, the
smoother its appearance is going to be when rendered. Remember that
even curved surfaces are made from triangles, and the surface becomes
better defined with each point added. However, an object with more
points than are necessary can become a burden; drawing the object in
the editor takes more time, and although the final rendered picture
with be higher quality with extra points, it will also take longer.
Thus, when you add new primitive objects, Imagine asks what level of
detail you would like.

For example, the sphere primitive asks how many circle sections and
how many vertical sections will make it up. The default is a
reasonable number of defining points. If you were looking for a higher
quality sphere because you were going to zoom in very closely to it,
you might use extra points. If the object is going to sit in the
background and not be examined closely, you might select fewer points.
Most of the time, the defaults serve as a nice compromise, but you are
much more likely to simplify the object as opposed to increase the
default level of detail. The plane primitive in particular lends
itself to simplification- most of the time you can bear with defining
the simplest plane possible (2 triangles) as opposed to the
overburdened default of a grid of 200 triangles.

Each primitive lets you define the numbers of points that define it;
the parameters that you can vary are all pretty self-explanatory.  For
example, the cylinder lets you define how many points are to form the
circle around the rim, and also how many sections the body of the tube
should be defined as.  Other options (available for some primitives)
are simple flags that define whether to close the ends of the cylinder
(to create a hollow tube versus a log) or to 'stagger points' in some
models. Staggering points increases the smoothness of curves- you
should almost always leave it on.  Note that the disk and the plane
are actually flat objects- the others all have depth. All objects also
let you define their size; this is quite straightforward.

When you have loaded an object or added a primitive, you'll notice
that you can see each point and edge in the wireframe. In addition,
you'll see an AXIS, usually near the center of the object. In Imagine,
EVERY OBJECT HAS IT'S OWN INDEPENDENT AXIS. An object's axis helps
Imagine determine which way an object is facing, how it is scaled, and
even what it's position is. Imagine doesn't understand what the
objects ARE; it doesn't realize that a complex object like an airplane
should orient itself with wheels down instead of balanced sideways on
a wingtip.  The axis actually defines the object's position; if you
ask Imagine to move an object, Imagine really just moves the axis, and
the object's points, edges, and faces are dragged along with it. When
you rotate an object, the rotation occurs around the object's axis, as
opposed to the world's absolute reference system. Scalings, where you
change the size of the object, also use the object axis as a basis.

When you want to manipulate a certain object, you have to tell Imagine
which one (or ones!) that you're interested in, since you might have a
dozen different object loaded at once. The way of choosing an object
so you can manipulate it is just by clicking on it's axis. The object
will turn a pretty blue color (or sometimes purple- more later!) which
indicates that the object is chosen- any manipulation commands will
be done on this one object. The object is said to be "picked", and
Imagine knows that you want to apply commands to this object as
opposed to another.

Once you've picked an object, the most common manipulations are to
move it around, rotate it, or scale it. These basic commands are often
used, so Impulse has made it pretty easy to do. When you have a
selected an object, you type the letter 'm' for move. The object will
disappear (!)  and be replaced by a big yellow "bounding box" which
encloses the volume where your object was. This bounding box
represents the size, shape, position, and orientation of your object.
Since the box is so simple to draw, Imagine can update it in realtime
as you manipulate it, allowing you to position it quickly and easily.

After selecting the object and pressing "m", Imagine knows you want to
move the object. Putting the cursor in any of the three main views,
pressing the left mouse button and then dragging the mouse will drag
your object in the direction you move. You do not have to click on the
yellow box; anywhere in the view is fine. You can keep moving the
object as long as you like; you can let go of the mouse button, move
the pointer to another position in any of the three views, and
continue moving the object. You are also welcome to zoom in and out,
make one view full-screen, or re-center your views at any time. When
you are finally done moving your object, pressing the space bar will
accept the change and your object will be displayed as a wireframe in
it's new location.  If you've made a mistake, you can press the ESC
key instead of the space bar. This also exits the move mode, but the
object's position is unchanged from where it was before you started to
move it. This is obviously useful for fixing mistakes or changing your
mind.

Two other commands work much like move: rotate and scale. If you
select your object and press "r", you will rotate your object, and
you'll see the yellow bounding box spin as you drag the mouse with the
button down.  You can also change spin axes (to pitch or bank the
object, as opposed to yawing it) by pressing "x", "y", or "z" to
define which axis you want to rotate around. All rotation is done
around the OBJECT'S axis.

Scaling is done by selecting "s" and dragging the mouse. Again,
scaling is done relative to the OBJECT's axis. If the axis is in the
center of the object, the object will grow in all directions. If it is
at the bottom, the object will grow up and out, but not down.

Each of these three commands (move, scale, and rotate) can be called
either when you've picked an object or during any other move, scale,
or rotate command. For example, you might pick an object, press "m"
to move the object, position it in a new place, press "r" to spin it,
then "s" to scale it. You do not have to press the space bar after
every change; only after you are finally satisfied with the new
location, size, and orientation of your object do you want to press
the space bar to accept the changes you've made.  Aborting by using
the ESC key will remove all of the changes (movements, rotations, and
scalings) that you've made.

These manipulation commands are easy to use, and they have other
controls that make certain manipulations even easier. At the bottom of
the screen, there is a status bar that will highlight which mode
you're in. If you are moving, the "M" in the "M=Move" at the bottom
of the screen will be highlighted, and the "R" and "S" highlight when
you're rotating or scaling.

The "x", "y", and "z" commands that allow you to change rotation axes
also work in moving and scaling. They act in these two modes as
toggles- when you start a move, you are free to move it in all three
directions, X, Y, and Z. You might want to restrict a direction of
motion, though, if for example you are moving a table along a floor
and you didn't want to accidentally lift the table into the air as you
moved it left and right. Pressing the "x", "y", and "z" keys will
toggle the allowable directions on and off, so pressing "z" will
anchor the table's height, and pressing "z" again will allow you to
lift it up if you change your mind. This also works in the scaling
mode; if you want to make an object narrower without changing its
height, you might toggle "z" and scale the object down. With the "z"
toggle off, the object will maintain it's Z height, but will shrink in
the X and Y directions.  At any time, the display at the bottom of the
screen shows the letters "X-Y-Z" and highlights the directions that
are "active" or changeable.

A related shortcut is using the capital letters "X", "Y", and "Z",
which set the toggles to allow movement and scaling in one direction
only.  If you wanted to lift a table straight up, you just type "Z"
and the table will be free to move up and down, but not in the X or Y
directions.  This method of setting the toggles overrides whatever
position they were set in before, but you can use the individual
toggles afterwards to set whatever freedoms you like.

Imagine gives you even more flexibility if you want to use it.
Whenever you move, rotate, and scale an object, it is based on a
certain coordinate system. The default is to use the standard
coordinate system- the set of axes that is fixed in place and shown at
the bottom left of the three main views. This is called the "world"
coordinate system.  However, each object has it's own "local"
coordinate system, defined by it's own axis. Imagine allows you to use
a local coordinate system instead of the world system if you like.

For example, if you have an object in the shape of a plane, the local
coordinate system probably has the Y axis (going front to back) in
line with the main fuselage of the plane. Using "r" to rotate the
plane, you can easily position it so that it is angled up like it is
climbing into the sky. If you then wanted to move it in a straight
line along it's "flight path", the direction it's pointing, you could
select move, and try to judge by eye the new position in the direction
in front of the plane. If, instead, you select local mode (by using
"l") and restrict motion along the Y direction by typing "Y", the
plane will move smoothly along the line it's pointed along. In the
world coordinate system, it's moving in both the Y and Z directions,
but in it's local coordinate system, it's moving only in it's Y
direction.

To switch between coordinate systems, you just type "l" and "w"
whenever you want to change. The current coordinate system has L or W
highlighted at the bottom display just like the X-Y-Z indicators.
Many times the local and world coordinate systems will be the same, so
one is equivalent to the other.

One final option when you're manipulating objects allows you to
manipulate the axis of the object independently. If you want to move,
scale, or rotate an object's axis [without simultaneously affecting
the object!] you can use "M", "R", and "S", the capital letter
versions of the object manipulation commands, to affect only the axis.
There are some occasions you might want to do this for fancy tricks,
but most of the time, you just want to move the axis around just so
that it lies near the center of your object.

The standard commands to move, rotate, and scale objects have been
streamlined for ease of use since they are performed so often.
Sometimes, however, they are somewhat lacking, especially when you
need precise control over how your object is to be manipulated. For
the precise control of object manipulation, Imagine has a special
command called "Transform" which allows you to numerically control
your object as opposed to judging by eye.

The transform command works much like the standard interactive
commands in that you first select your object (by clicking on it's
axis) and then telling Imagine what to do to it. To enter the
transform command, you click on the object (it becomes blue or purple)
and pull down the menu item "transform" from the Object menu. A small
requester will appear. You have six options you can choose from:
translate, rotate, scale, position, alignment, and size. You also
enter X, Y, and Z arguments.

Translate takes the X, Y and Z arguments and moves (translates) the
object that distance.

Rotate will rotate the object around the axis you specify by an amount
(in degrees) you specify in X, Y and Z. Performing more than one
rotation at once is legal, but it is easy to make mistakes in final
orientation. If you rotate around more than one axis at once, the Z
rotation is performed, then the X rotation, then the Y rotation.

Scale will scale your object by a certain factor. To double the size,
just enter 2 in each of the X, Y, and Z boxes. A negative number is
completely legal, and if one or three of the scalings is negative,
you'll actually get a scaled mirror image of your original object.

Position is like Translate in that it moves your object. Instead of
moving a certain distance, however, it moves to absolute world
coordinates.

Alignment is also absolute; it will rotate your object in whatever way
necessary to align in the direction you specify, regardless of the
original orientation. Setting X, Y, Z all to zero will make the object
line up exactly with the world axes.

Size is again absolute. It uses the axis size as a benchmark, and will
scale the object (and it's axis) to an absolute size. The "default"
size that all axes start out at is 32 Imagine Units, so entering an
XYZ size of 32 32 32 will bring most objects back to their virgin
sizes.

To use any of these sub-commands, just click on the box next to it's
name and type in the appropriate X, Y, and Z arguments in the boxes to
the right. Selecting "OK" will perform the manipulations, "cancel"
will abort without affecting your object.

You have the option to use world or local coordinates, just as in the
interactive commands; just click on either box to decide. The default
is the world system. You can also manipulate only the axis (like the
capital letter commands in interactive manipulation) by selecting
"transform axis only."

Most manipulations use the interactive controls, and the
transformation requester is used only for accurate, measured changes.

One problem that you may run into after an interactive or a
transformed manipulation is a "dirty" screen. Imagine erases the old
object from before your move or scale or rotate, and draws it in the
new position. However, to save time, it will not redraw any other
wireframe object that was in view. This means that the areas were the
old object intersected any other object in the view will be blank;
part of the other object will be erased. If you want to check to see
if this is the case, you can select "Redraw" from the Display menu,
which will redraw all of the objects, eliminating the problem.  One
case where this is almost necessary is when you have multiple copies
of an object at the same place. If you move one copy, the other isn't
redrawn. Since it was in the exact same location as the old, erased,
object, it looks like it has disappeared!  This is easy to fix with
redraw. It is another oft-used command, so knowing the keyboard
equivalent of right-Amiga-r is handy.

A problem you'll run into when manipulating complex objects is the
sheer time it takes to redraw the wireframe model (in three views).
Imagine has a way to speed the display of these objects- it shows
the bounding box of the object (like the one shown in interactive
manipulation) instead of the wireframe. You LOOSE the detailed view
of your object, but you can still see the position, size, and
orientation. To make an object "quickdraw" in this mode, you can
use three commands in the Functions menu. "Quickdraw all" will make
all of the objects display in quickdraw mode. "Quickdraw none" will
make all objects display the normal wireframe. "Quickdraw pick" will
make your picked (blue or purple highlighted) object display in
quickdraw mode. These quickdraw boxes are very handy, and since
they can be toggled at any time in the Detail Editor, it makes sense
to use them when screen updates start to get too slow.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
               IV. Harvesting and Sorting with Pick
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since you can have many objects loaded at once, there has to be a way
for you to tell Imagine what object or objects you want to deal with.
You've done this already, by clicking on an object's axis, and
watching it turn color. This shows that the picked object is ready to
be manipulated on.

What if we want to manipulate more than one object at a time? A
standard way to "multi-pick" things (like icons in AmigaDos, or
objects in Imagine) is to use the shift key. By holding the shift key
as you click on objects, Imagine knows you want ALL of them picked,
not just the latest one. In fact, if you press the shift key, the
display line at the top of the screen will change to show how many
objects are picked. Commands will affect all of the picked objects,
not just one. In the case of moving, scaling, and rotating more than
one object, the FIRST picked object's axis defines the basis of all
the manipulations, as well as the local coordinate system for
manipulating all of the objects.

There are easier way to pick many objects than by repeatedly clicking
on each object's axis. Imagine allows you to change how objects are
picked by the "Pick Method" submenu in the Modes menu. The default is
"click", which means that when you click directly on an object's axis,
it will become picked.  Other methods of picking can be chosen from
the pick method submenu. If you use "drag box", instead of clicking on
the object axes, you should press and hold the mouse button while
dragging the mouse. A large box will follow your mouse, and when you
release the button, an object within the box will become picked. If
you press and hold the shift key when you release the mouse button,
ALL of the objects within the box will become picked.

Lasso is similar, but more versatile. You press and hold the button
while drawing a large circle or oval or squiggly shape. When you
release the button, an object within the region you've drawn will
become picked.  Again, you can hold the shift key to pick ALL of the
objects within.

A final option in the pick method submenu is called "Lock". Lock isn't
a method of picking; it really has more to do with when moving picked
objects. Lock is a flag; you can toggle it on and off by selecting it
from its submenu. When Lock is on, any moved object will snap to the
nearest grid location when released. This is automatic and is easier
than using the one-time "Snap to Grid" (described later, I promise!)
again and again when you're trying to get precise placement.

Two other utility commands can be found in the Pick/Select menu.
"Pick all" will pick ALL of the objects in your workspace. "Unpick
Last" will allow you to remove the last object you picked from your
set of picked objects. This is handy when you pick one too many
objects and you want to unpick the last one you chose.

It is easy to pick objects or sets of objects using the different pick
methods. There is actually another powerful way to change what object
or objects are picked; it is called "select."  There is a very, very
important difference between a "picked" object and a "selected"
object; you've been using pick to highlight objects and manipulate
them. Select is sort of a pick-wanna-be.

One problem that can occur is when two object axes are directly on top
of each other. If you click on the common axis location, one of the
objects will become picked. (The first one that was created or loaded
into the Editor). If you click again, the same object will remain
picked and the second object will just sit there.  If you hold the
shift key and click on the common axis again, the second object WILL
be picked, but now BOTH objects are picked. If you want to pick just
the second object and not the first, you can either MOVE one object
just to uncover the other axis, or you can use select.

There is a solution when picking (or unpicking) objects becomes
awkward (or impossible!). SELECT allows you to control what objects
are picked by allowing you to add and remove objects from your set of
picked objects one at a time.

Think of buying lunch at a cafeteria, and you pick which food you want
to eat. One way of "picking" food to add to your tray is by having the
lunch worker point to each of the cafeteria's food bins, and saying
"No, the next one, the next one, the next one- yes! That one!"  as the
worker points to the foods in turn.  As the worker selects item after
item, you can choose to PICK the item he's pointing to at any time.
The analogy extends; What if your arms are full of cafeteria food and
you want to put some back? Your arms are busy holding all the food;
you can't easily grab an item and put it down.  You can, however, ask
a friend to "unpick" the item for you.  If your friend has trouble
with big words (like the names of food), he can just point at each
food in your arms in turn until he points to the granola yogurt you
want to put down. You then say "Yes, yes! Get rid of that!"

This is exactly what select allows you to do. Your arms are full with
picked objects. You can't just click on an object to "unpick" it
because Imagine thinks you're just making sure you have it picked. You
also might have problems indicating the right object to pick, as in
the case of two objects on top of one another. The major difference
between the the cafeteria and Imagine is that your mentally challenged
friend is also the cafeteria worker, and will point to both types of
objects for you.

Select works by allowing you to highlight different objects in a
controlled way. A "selected" object might be picked or not; A normal
object is white, a selected object is orange, a picked object is blue,
and a picked AND selected object is purple.

Only one object is ever be selected at once, which is helpful in
reducing confusion. The commands for selecting objects are completely
different from those of PICKing objects; the whole point of select is
that sometimes the methods used to pick objects are awkward, and
select gives you an alternative way to pick them.

The easiest and most common method of selecting an object is by using
two commands, "Select next" and "Select previous", both found in the
Pick/Select menu. Using "Select next" repeatedly will cycle through
all of the objects in the order that they were created or loaded.
This command does NOT care whether the object is picked or not; it
will select all objects one at a time. "Select next" is often a
command you want to repeat, so knowing the keyboard shortcut of
right-amiga-n is almost necessary.  By repeatedly using select next,
ANY object can be selected because Select next will eventually reach
it. "Select previous", right-amiga-p, will select objects in the
opposite order, in case you overshoot with select next.  One
convenience is that when an object becomes selected, your view will
jump to center the object on the screen, always allowing you to see
what you just selected.

When an object is selected, there are certain commands that will cause
it to become picked or un-picked. The most common command is called
"pick select", which can be found in the Pick/Select menu. When you
use this menu option, the selected object will become picked. If the
selected object is picked and you want to un-pick it, you can use
"unpick select" from the pick/select menu to unpick it.

"Select next" is kinda klunky, especially if you know exactly what
object you want to select. One quick command that is sometimes useful
is "Home", which selects the very first object you created or loaded
into the Editor.

Two other useful commands to quickly select specific objects are "Find
by Name" and "Find requester", both found in the Functions menu. "Find
by Name" allows you to type in an object's name (assigned in the
Attributes requester, more later) and your view will shift to center
on the object you named. In addition, the object becomes selected,
allowing you to pick-select or unpick-select it. The "Find by
Requester" does the same thing except it displays the names of all of
the currently loaded objects, and you just click on the name you want
to select. This requester is also useful because it tells you the size
(# of points, edges, and faces) of each object, which is an excellent
judge of object complexity. It's also fun to say "Cool! My tomato has
1,821 points!"



----------
Continued in the next file...

##

Subject: Introductory Detail Tutorial (File 3 of 3)
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 91 00:17:42 EDT
From: [e-mail]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                   V. Hierarchies and Complex objects
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

With complex models, sometimes you don't want to make one huge, mungo
object to represent the entire model. You might want to make a forest
object that has 20 trees in it, and it seems silly to carve the whole
thing out of one block. Or, you might be building an object that is
logically a bunch of separate parts, like a clock with a face, a
pendulum, two hands, and a frame.

Another important ability you might want is to be able to give
different parts of a complex object different attributes, or colors.
Imagine lets you color and define the look of your objects in
different ways, and you can even tell it to make different parts of
the same object look different. But when you're building something
like a window, the glass panes are considerably different than the
wood frames; it is easier to define each as a separate object then
somehow group them together.

There is a function that lets you do exactly this- group objects
together.  When you have a model that you want to make (and keep!) in
separate sections, Imagine allows you to establish a group of objects
which will stay together. It allows you to treat the group as an
entire ensemble (if you want to move everything, or apply a command to
the whole set), or you can pick out one particular object and deal
with it independently.

Grouping is very easy to do. If you want to group two objects
together, you click on one object, then press the shift key and click
on the other.  Remember that this is just the method of picking more
than one object at once. When you have multi-picked the objects, you
select "group" from the Object menu. A purple line will appear joining
the axes of the objects.  The first object that was selected becomes
the "parent" of the group.  If you group more than two objects, the
purple "group" lines all run from each "child" object to the parent
object. This lets you see which axis to click on to pick the entire
group. Sometimes it is nice to assign a lone axis as the parent of a
group, especially when no part of a group really doesn't lend itself
to being a parent.

Splitting a group back into it's component parts is also easy; just
pick the group by clicking on the parent. The entire group will become
picked, and selecting "Ungroup" from the Object menu will split the
group. The purple joining lines will disappear, and each child will
be independent again.

Once a group is made, it can be treated almost identically to an
ungrouped object. You can pick it (by clicking on the parent) and the
entire group will become highlighted. You can then move, scale, or
rotate the entire group as a whole. If you click on a CHILD object,
the child will be picked, but not the group. You can then move, scale,
or rotate it independently of the group, assign it individual
attributes, or perform a command on it independently of the rest of
the group. Even when you move the child object around, it will STAY
grouped; you must use "ungroup" to ungroup objects. There are modes
where you can pick parents separate from their children; this is
described in the next section.

In addition, you can make groups of groups. Or groups of groups of
groups. This is done exactly the same as before; you can pick one
group, multi-pick a second, and group them. Having these multi-layer
groups is sometimes very useful. One excellent example would be in
modeling a human figure. You might make a finger group that contains
all of the knuckles, a hand group including a palm, four finger
groups, and a thumb group, an arm group consisting of a hand group, a
wrist, a forearm, and an elbow, and a body group consisting of a head
group, a torso, two leg groups, and two arm groups. This kind of
nested grouping is called a "hierarchy", where the body is the
great-granddaddy of a knuckle. One great advantage is obvious when you
want to move an arm.  You pick the arm, and rotate it around the
shoulder. All of the arm's children follow it, so the arm moves as a
whole. You do NOT have to move 15 knuckles, a palm, a wrist, a
forearm, and so on. If you want to adjust a finger, you can manipulate
it and the knuckles will move together, but the arm will be
unaffected. If you move the main parent body group, everything follows
along as if the body were just one solid object, as opposed to dozens
of parts. Hierarchies are obviously suited for complex models.

Groups are useful when you have sub-parts of an object you want to
keep together. Sometimes grouping simple objects is still useful even
if there is no hierarchy to follow, since the individual objects are
free to move apart from the parent, and can easily be assigned different
attributes.

For example, if you're designing a human face, you might cause the
eyeballs in the head to be an additional grouped object as opposed to
just molded into the main face. Later, if you wanted to change the eye
(make it a different color, or replace it with a different type of eye
(chrome eyeballs!  Cool!)) you can easily select the eye and change or
replace it. This advantage compounds the other advantages of grouping;
you can later animate the eyes looking in different directions, and
you can easily change the attributes or texture of the eye while
leaving the face undisturbed.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
       VII. Pick, Add, Drag.  Pick, Add, Drag. Geez, how boring!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are some useful commands that act on picked objects other than
just moving, rotating, and scaling. Two of the most obvious are "Load"
and "Save". Load will load a new object in from disk- it will give you
a file requester which you can choose the filename from.  The most
common place to put objects are in your "objects" subdirectory in your
project directory.See the Project Editor tutorial for the complete
Imagine file structure.

Am important suggestion; use descriptive names and extensions. I
talked about this a lot in my Project tutorial, but it's worth
repeating. "Obj1" is going to mean nothing to you an hour from now.
"tablecloth.iob" tells you that this is an Imagine object of a
tablecloth- a useful description. Some suggested file extensions:

 .iob    Imagine Object. Loads into the Detail Editor
 .iout   Imagine Object which is a faceless outline
 .ifm    Imagine Form. Loads into the Form or Detail Editor
 .iff    Amiga picture or brush  (standard)
 .ham    Amiga picture or brush in Hold-And-Modify format
 .iff24  24-bit Amiga picture of brush. Highest quality.
 .spth   Imagine spline path
 .lpth   Imagine line path

Save will take the picked object or group and save it onto disk.
Note that GROUPS will save as one big group, as long as you have the
whole group picked by clicking on the parent. You can give the saved
object or group any name you want, and you'll probably want use an
extension of ".iob". If you pick a child of a group and save it,
you save ONLY that object (and its children), and NOT the entire group
it belongs to.

Another command you can apply to picked objects is "Snap to Grid" from
the Functions menu. It operates on all picked objects, moving each of
them so that their axis lies on top of the nearest grid intersection.
This is very useful in trying to line up objects or for precise
positioning. This is much like a one-time "Lock".

There are a few other utility object commands. "Cut", "Copy", and
"Paste" are found in the Object menu. "Cut" will remove your object
from the Imagine world and store it in memory. When you select
"Paste", the object will be re-inserted into the world at the same
place it was prior to the cut. In fact, the object is STILL retained
in memory, so you can move the restored object around and use "Paste"
again to get a second copy to manipulate.  You can repeat "Paste" as
many times as you like to get copies of objects. "Copy" is like cut,
except the object is not removed from the world after being copied to
memory. You can use "Paste" to add multiple copies to the world.

Since the pasted objects are all put in the same location, often
you'll have to move one copy to get to the next. Judicious use of
"Redraw" can help in showing exactly what copies are still floating
around.

An incredibly useful command for making complex objects is called
"Join", which can be found in the Functions menu. If you pick two or
more objects, join will assemble them into one single object. The
new conglomerate object will have use the axis of the first object
that was picked, and will contain all of the points, edges, and faces
of all of the joined objects. Joined objects are difficult to
unjoin later, so only use it when you WANT a solid object. Join
is used constantly- you might build a car with the body sides, and
"join" on a side mirror, then join the  roof on, then join the floor.
Remember the advantages of groups though; you probably DON'T want
to join the tires to the car; if you group them you can rotate them
later, as well as define the chrome hubcap separately from the car's
paint and the rubber tire.

"Merge" is also found in the Functions menu. It is more of a utility
command. It will remove any duplicate faces, edges or points in your
object. Especially after you JOIN objects, you might have a lot of
points lying on top of one another. Merge removes these extra,
unneeded points, speeding rendering and even display in the editors.
Merge also helps Phong shading; more about Phong shading in the soon
to come Attribute Tutorial.

Delete is pretty obvious command. It can also be found in the Functions
menu.  When you use delete, every picked object will be removed from the
world. This command is used a lot to get rid of cruft and deadwood, so
knowing the keyboard shortcut of right-amiga-d is useful.

As with all of the editors, Imagine has one level of "Undo", which can
be selected from the Project menu. When using dangerous commands like
Delete, being able to recover from the command is important. Undo will
work with almost any command. You can also undo an undo, reinstating a
command you decided you wanted anyway.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                   VIII. Spraypaint and Picture Frames
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

The low-level commands to create and manipulate objects are sufficient
to create any model you can think of.  An additional level of control
you have is the ability to define the surface color and attributes of
your object. A flat plane might be made of two triangles, but
depending on how you set the attributes of the plane, it might render
as a pane of glass, a reflective mirror, a wood tabletop, a piece of
graph paper, or a picture of your grandmother. Defining the surface
characteristics of objects gives them their character. Luckily,
Imagine gives you excellent control of these attributes.

Every object has a set of attributes that can be modified. In a group,
every object can have different attributes from the parent; when you
select a group, you only modify the parent's attributes. To change any
attributes, just pick an object and select "Attributes" from the Object
menu. A requester will appear, and you can select different properties
to change. In addition, you can place brush maps and textures on the
object, as well as add or change the object's name.

Choosing and setting attributes is immensely important to make your
objects look good. Setting textures and especially brushmaps give you
near-infinite control on what your object's surface looks like.  I
have written full tutorials on both the use of texture and brushmaps,
and plan to write one on setting attributes.  The choices in the
attributes requester are so important that they deserve a tutorial
unto themselves. I haven't written the attribute tutorial as of today
(6/11/91), but look for it by the end of July.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    IX. A Mode for Every Season
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

The basic commands to pick, move, and view the world and everything in
it are very important, as they are used constantly. The actual work
you perform in building objects depends on the user changing the view
and manipulating the objects almost without thought.

No matter how good we are at manipulating objects and changing the
view, using these commands will never BUILD an object for us. To do
this, Imagine has different MODES that it performs different actions
in. Some modes allow us to manipulate objects and groups, as we have
been doing already. Other modes let us pick and manipulate not
objects, but the POINTS of an object, or the edges, or the faces.
Still other modes let us drag points around in different ways. Some
let us add NEW points, edges, and faces.  (Aha! So that's how we can
build our own objects!)

These modes are easy to change; you can just pull down the Mode menu
and select which mode you would like to be in.  The current mode is
always displayed in the status line at the top of the screen; this is
often handy when you get confused about what you're doing. The
keyboard equivalents for changing the current mode all use right-Amiga
and a digit; this makes the keypad become a "mode selector" if you
don't want to use the pull-down menus and have stuff it takes to
remember which digit is which mode.  Personally, I don't have the
stuff, so I bear with the pulldown menu rather than strain my poor
brain.

The default mode is "Pick Groups", which means that whenever you click
on a group, it will be picked. (Simple!) If you want to pick
individual objects, EVEN IF THEY ARE THE PARENT OF A GROUP, there is
a mode called "Pick Objects."  Just select it from the mode menu, and
now when you click on any object (in a group or not, child or parent)
it will be selected. You cal obviously multi-select it using the shift
key. When you are dealing with ungrouped objects, "Pick groups" and
"Pick objects" work identically.

Different modes let you deal with the different parts of an object. Up
until this time, we've always dealt with entire objects at a time. We
could rotate, scale, and move them, add them, group them, and delete
them, though we could not affect their basic structure. The remaining
modes all work on PARTS of objects, not objects themselves. One
important note is that to even enter these other modes, you must have
selected at least one object (or group) for the new modes to act apon.

You'll also find that I consistently lied to you in most of the
previous sections. I always referred to picking objects as opposed to
picking anything else. ALL of the pick and select commands except Find
work equally well in picking faces, edges, or points as opposed to
just objects or groups. Most other commands like Delete will work on
the parts of an object as well.

One new mode is "Pick points." If you pick an object or group and
enter the pick points" mode, the object will turn white (the object is
NOT picked anymore!) and it's points will all become visible (they
will show up as small squares.) Now you are in a different mode; you
are no longer picking and selecting OBJECTS, you are dealing
exclusively with points. You can then click on the points which will
turn orange as you pick them. You can use the shift key to multi-pick,
or the lasso and drag box to grab many points at once. You can also
select points, and use all of the selection tools to help you get any
subset of points you want. Selected points are green, picked points are
orange, and picked and selected points are yellow.

When you're picking points, edges, or faces, Imagine will work ONLY
with the points, edges, or faces in the object that was picked before
you chose the "pick points (or edges or faces)" mode. This prevents
you from confusing one object's points with another's. When you scroll
around your view or redraw the screen, the other objects won't even be
updated, so don't get scared if they seem to disappear. When you
re-enter pick objects or pick groups mode, all of the objects will
re-appear.

Just because you can pick something doesn't mean you can perform every
command on them. In the case of points, you can delete your picked
points, or use the transformation requester to translate them;
interactive dragging is actually another mode of it's own, though.
When you delete a point, you delete any edges and faces that that
point help form. You cannot do things to selected points that make no
sense (like grouping them, or saving them to a file)- that's just
weird.

You can perform some other commands that aren't applicable to objects
as a whole, however. For example, a very useful command is called
"split." It takes the selected points,  removes them from the
original object, and gives them their own axis. In effect, the
original object is split into two parts defined by the points you
picked. Any connecting faces or edges are deleted (two objects do NOT
share!).  This might be very useful when you have a logo and want to
pull one letter out of the object to do something special with it.

One command that is unique to pick points mode is "taut", which is
found in the Functions menu. If you select three or more points and
select "taut", the middle points will jump to the line segment defined
by the first and last points. This command might be useful to line up
a bunch of points in a straight line quickly. Taut does NOT work with
anything other than picked points.

Picked points can be manipulated with the Transform command. The
picked points can be translated, scaled, rotated, and positioned
INDEPENDENTLY of the rest of the object. Rotations and scalings all
use the object's axis as a reference point. Absolute positioning will
move the FIRST point you pick to the location you choose, and the
rest of the picked points will be translated an equal amount. Interactive
dragging is accomplished using the "drag points" mode.

Picking edges is similar to picking points, except to specify an edge
you just click on the two points that make it up, or lasso or drag box
the entire edge. Just like points, you can't perform every command on
them. You can delete them and split them.

You CANNOT translate edges or use taut on them. Deleted edges will
delete any face they belong to, but the points in the edges will NOT
be removed.

A new command you cannot perform on points but can use on faces is
called "fracture." This command is in the Functions pull down menu,
and is often very useful. The fracture command will take and break
each edge into two edges, with an additional point added to the
midpoint of each selected edge. This command is very useful when you
need to increase the detail level at a certain area of an object; the
extra edges that appear allow you to manipulate them to add finer
details and structures.

Select Faces is again pretty straightforward. You must click on ALL
THREE of the points that make up the face to select it. Fracture works
very well on faces; it splits each face (one triangle) into four
triangles defined by the midpoints of the face. The new faces can then
be manipulated for higher object definition.

Deleting faces removes the faces, but not the edges or points that it was
made up of.

Picked faces allow you to characterize an object's appearance in local
areas. The attribute requester normally allows you to give the object
overall color, reflection, and transparency values. You can actually
set these for every single face, if you like. You can pick one or more
faces, select "attributes" from the Object menu, and use the sliders
to set the color, transparency, and filter values for the face or
faces.

You will NOT see any change in the appearance of your object when you
do this, but when you render, the faces you selected will all override
the default object color with the attributes you selected. A danger is
that face attributes are somewhat fragile. If you join or merge
objects or start deleting or adding points to it, all face coloring is
often lost. To keep this from happening, color individual faces LAST,
just before saving your object.

A final note about face coloring; don't depend on it for coloring your
objects in complex ways. Using grouped objects or brush maps is much
more robust and allows better control. Coloring individual faces is
useful mostly for quick and dirty attribute definition or for making
small details that aren't worth the bother of a brushmap or extra
object.

Both "pick edges" and "pick faces" will allow you to split off the
selected parts of the object to create two new objects by using
"split", just as split works with selected points.

Three additional modes are "add points", "add edges", and "add faces".
Add points will add an additional point to your object in the location
you click on. Add edges lets you click on TWO points and will add a
new edge joining them. Add faces mode will let you add a new face to
an object by clicking on the THREE points that make it up.

"Add lines" mode is a convenient combination of "add points" and "add
edges". As you click, a new point is added in the location you point
to, and further clicks will add additional points along with an edge
joining the latest point to the one that was immediately preceding it.
Thus, a few clicks around the border of a rough circle will make a set
of points with the edges following the outline of that circle.
Carefully clicking on the location of an existing point will cause the
new line to connect to to that point, so making closed shapes is
easier.

"Drag points" mode allows you to interactively drag individual points
in your object around. If you select this mode, you can click on any
point and drag it to a new location interactively. Any edges or faces
that this point is connected to will follow the point to its new
location.

Dragging multiple points is also easy- just use the shift key,
multi-pick the points by clicking on each in turn, and when you want
to start dragging them, just release the shift key.

AN IMPORTANT TECHNIQUE: What if you want to select a point or points
in one view, and drag them in an orthogonal direction? For example,
you have a plane defined by a horizontal 10 by 10 grid, and you want
to select a bunch of points from the middle and pull them up. If you
click on the points from the top view, you can easily select any of
the points you're interested in, but you can only drag them left and
right, forward and back. You want to be able to drag them UP.

Here's the method for doing this: it is invaluable, so remember it.
Whether you want to move one point or a hundred, press the shift key
to multi-pick the points.  Click on the points you want to move in ANY
view, keeping the shift key depressed. To move all of these points,
KEEP THE SHIFT KEY DEPRESSED and move the mouse to the view where you
want to move the points in. Press and hold the left button, then
RELEASE the shift key. The picked points will move with your mouse for
as long as you keep the button held down. Releasing the button will
anchor the points.

In the example with the 10 by 10 horizontal grid, you would press
shift, click on the points you want in the top view, move to the front
(or right) view, release the shift key, move the points up, and
release the mouse button.  That's it!

Magnetism, a more complex way of dragging points will be covered in
the "advanced" Detail tutorial.

One problem with manipulating points, edges, and faces is picking the
RIGHT point. When the object is complex, the wireframe displays can
get very cluttered. There is a convenient way of simplifying a view to
get points out of your view- it is a mode called "hide points". In
hide points mode, any points you select (with click, drag box, or
lasso) will disappear from view- they will go away. They still exist,
they just aren't displayed and can't be picked or manipulated. You can
"hide" whatever points that get in the way of your work area, then
change modes, and manipulate the non-hidden parts of your object.
Selecting "pick objects" or "pick groups" will make the hidden points
re-appear.

For example, if you're working on a helicopter model and you want to
work on the rotor alone, you might select "hide points" mode, and use
the lasso to indicate the main helicopter body. The rotor is left
alone, and after changing into drag points or select faces mode, it is
easy to indicate what portion of the rotor you want to deal with
without accidentally modifying the helicopter body. Selecting "pick
objects" mode makes the entire helicopter, with the rotor changes,
reappear.

In theory, you can create any object by adding an axis, then adding
points, edges and faces. In practice, these are very low level
commands; you generally use the more powerful commands like "mold" and
"slice" found in the Object editor. The low level select and add modes
are built to give you the low level control that you sometimes need;
however, they are more for defining basic outlines that are then used
in the more powerful Object commands, or for touching up small details
on nearly complete objects. The next Detail tutorial will talk about
these commands.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        X. More to come
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

This tutorial describes the important fundamentals of using the Detail
Editor. Remember that most object creation mostly uses the advanced
functions like "mold" and "slice". My next tutorial will deal with
these powerful tools; however, the basics that are described in this
tutorial are very useful and knowing how to move your view and
manipulate objects is virtually essential. I also plan to write a
general tutorial (with examples!)  describing object creation; knowing
all the menu commands doesn't give you a sense of the strategies to
follow or steps to take to create a specific model.

Another important discussion in the followup Detail Tutorial will
describe different classes of objects: lone axes, line paths,
outlines, flat objects, and "normal" objects.  Expect the second
tutorial around the middle to end of July, 1991.

Whew! Another tutorial whipped out! Actually, this one only covers 2/3
of an Editor, but including everything would really stretch the limits
of a coherent text file. (This one is only 71K!) I am very glad to
have gotten a lot of positive response from my last tutorial on the
Forms Editor; I hope this one (which covers a much more complex
Editor) is equally well received.

If you have any questions, you are welcome to write me or send
e-mail to the Internet Imagine Mailing list, [e-mail].
Any suggestions or "I want to see this in a tutorial" questions
sent to me personally will be gladly accepted.


-Steve

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                [e-mail]
-------------------------------------------------------------------


Steve Worley
290 Massachusetts Ave.   (this address soon to change, but mail sent
Cambridge MA 02139        here will eventually make it to me anyway...)


----------------------------------------------

This file and the text therein is Copyright 1991 by Steven P. Worley.
All rights reserved.  This file may be distributed freely in computer
or paper form as long as 1) It is unchanged and unedited 2) is
distributed in its entirely 3) gives proper credit to the author,
Steven Worley.

##

Subject: It is just me or ...
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 91 00:27:41 mdt
From: Steven Lee Webb <[e-mail]>

Is it Just me...

Or is it IMPOSSIBLE to move a grouped object part in an animation?

When you go into the Action editor and load an object that is the father of
some grouped child objects, the object that you get to manipulate is the WHOLE
object, and not it's children!  I've tried making two different versions of
the object in the detail editor, and morphing between the two children's axis.
Doesn't work.  I also tried to pick the children's axis in the stage editor,
and move them frame-by-frame, but no good, Imagine won't allow you to pick
children in the stage editor.  8(

Anyone?
--
Only  ///|Steven Lee Webb  +---------------------------------------+  /\__Luxo|
Amiga/// |CSU - Comp. Sci. |  11-XAV a edisni deppart ma I !pleH   |  \\ /\ Jr|
 \\\///  |Amiga 500-5M Ram |     [e-mail]     |  /|/\ _  |
  \XX/   |50M Hard Drive   +---------------------------------------+ // \ (_) |

##

Subject: Re: Looking for conversion program
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 91 13:28:01 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Dave Schreiber)

Thanks.  Unfortunatly, Superview doesn't work under Kickstart 2.0.
Moreover, when Imagine converts 12bit->HAM without a locked palette,
I've found that it doesn't generate the background consistantly
(individual pixels that are part of the dithering tend to vary in
color and intensity), which slows down the animation and makes the
animation file larger.

-Dave Schreiber

##

Subject: Grouped object in Stage
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 91 19:17:21 EDT
From: [e-mail]

Steven Lee Webb asks if it is possible to move children objects in
groups independently in the Stage Editor.

The answer is no- you cannot move the group's children independantly.
If you could, you would be forced to make a new entry in the Action
Editor for each child. Coordinating movement with the parent would
become very tricky, too. This would make the Action Editor become
unbearably confusing and large if you had objects of even moderate
complexity.

There are two easy solutions. If you need to move part of a group, you
can just save it as it's own object in the Detail Editor. Then you can
load both parts of the previously grouped object into the Stage
Editor, and control the two parts independantly since they are now
completely seperate.  The second solution is to use Morph, which DOES
work..  though you said you were unsuccessful. You might look at the
"Transition frame count" in the actor line to make sure you specified
a transition time.

-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

##

Subject: Scanned images -> Imagine
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 91 17:58:11 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Bandy Mike)

How do I go about converting a scanned PC TIFF or GIF file to
one that could be manipulated via Imagine?  Preferably using PD
utilities that I can pick off of the net - I have DPAINT III, if
that helps.

Thanks.

Mike Bandy

##

Subject: DCTV & you & me
Date:    Fri, 14 Jun 91 15:54 PDT
From: ivan i <[e-mail]>

Has anyone had any experience with using DCTV & Imagine?  I've seen the demo
and it certainly looks nice, but I've heard some negative things about how it
stacks up against other 24 bit display hardware, i.e. there's actually less
than full 24 bit capability.

I'm also curious as to how good it's output to tape looks, as I haven't seen
any examples.

Thanks a bunch.

##

Subject: Re: Scanned images -> Imagine
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 91 09:53:08 -0400
From: Udo K Schuermann <[e-mail]>

[e-mail] (Bandy Mike):
> How do I go about converting a scanned PC TIFF or GIF file to
> one that could be manipulated via Imagine?  Preferably using PD
> utilities that I can pick off of the net - I have DPAINT III, if
> that helps.

PD:
    The set of PBM programs (tifftoppm, giftoppm, ppmtoilbm) will
    do the trick.  The pbm programs should be available on
    ab20.larc.nasa.gov [128.155.23.64] as pbmplus.lzh or pbm.lzh
    -- get the /FILES.Z and grep that to find out where on ab20
    the files are located.
        The PBM programs are command-line driven, and, given a
    shell that allows pipes, can be strung together to
    "automatically" scale, convert, and otherwise alter the images
    on the fly.  If you hate the CLI, stay away from these
    programs.  They are quite capable, though, and the price is
    right.
        The PBM utilities do not handle XHBright mode, and the
    archive does not have 24 bit IFF capability.

Commercial:
    TAD (The Art Department) and ADPRO (sp?) are, by what I have
    seen and heard, VERY nice and powerful software of similar and
    greater power as the PBM programs.  TAD is definitely a whole
    lot easier to use!
        I'm not too choosy myself, and my needs to convert
    stuff are pretty limited, which is why I haven't bought TAD
    yet.

With any sort of image conversion software, RAM requirements are high.
Don't expect to be able to do much if you have only 1 Meg.  I'd say 2
or 3 Megs of contiguous RAM ought to get you somewhere, but more than
that is needed for large images.
    The PBM programs are in an lharc'ed file that is about 950K
big.  It won't fit on a floppy.  All the programs use about 1.6M disk
space (not including sparse documentation).

I hope this is useful to anybody else out there, which is why I posted
to the group.

Cheers!

 ._.  Udo Schuermann       "Did you ever wonder why we had to run for shelter
 ( )  [e-mail]    with the promise of the brave new world unfurled
 Seeking virtual memory     beneath the clear blue sky?" -- Pink Floyd

##

Subject: Re: Scanned images -> Imagine
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 91 11:03:38 EDT
From: [e-mail] (John J Humpal)

I have used both the PPM and ASDG programs.  Believe me, TAD and ADPro are a
dream to use, especially compared to PPM.  PPM is, nonetheless, an excellent
package if you have the time to learn it.

Regarding the size of the PPM package:  its true the whole thing won't fit
on a floppy, but there are probably several modules one would never use, so
those can be jettisoned.

I recommend TAD or ADPro because of the dithering routines and ease of
control.

John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer

##

Subject: Old question revisited...
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 91 01:47:08 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey W Davis)

I just upgraded from the beta version of Imagine to the 1.x version.  My
question (problem) is about the 'show' imagine on the Project screen.  I
didn't have any problem with pre 1.0, but cannot seem to get rid of the
picture once it 'shows' it!  I have successfully gotten it to work a
couple times with this version, but what gives?  This will surely drive
me nuts in a hurry!

Please send any 'potentially' helpful suggestions or hints!

Later,
Jeff

IN: [e-mail]

##

Subject: My Move
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 91 12:37:22 EDT
From: [e-mail]

I'll be moving to Palo Alto, California (from Cambridge MA) next week.
I'll be leaving June 20, and return to the net on July 1. There will
be NO changes to the list- things SHOULD go without a hitch. Even with
my graduation from MIT, I'll be able to keep the mailing list based
there.

Just in case something bad happens, I am putting a text file with the
membership list on hubcap.clemson.edu. It contains 110 names (the
current members) which is way down from the peak of 210 because of all
of the students who asked to be removed from the list during the
summer. If the list has to be re-formed, the names on hubcap will be
enough to restart it.

If the list explodes and starts sending a meg of trash to every member
every day, an e-mail message to [e-mail] (The MIT Athena
account God) explaining the problem will enable her to nuke the list
until it can be repaired/replaced. I'd like Ed Chadez
([e-mail]) to be the one to make the judgement call as to
whether a Bad Thing has happened. This is a drastic "pulling the plug"
fix, but will work in an emergency.

Again, there is almost no chance of a bad thing happening; I'm just being
ultr-careful.

After I get to California, expect the next tutorial on Detail! Thanks for
all the positive responses I've gotten so far on the Detail intro.

-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

##

Subject: Old question revisited...
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 91 12:26:45 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey W Davis)

I just upgraded from the beta version of Imagine to the 1.x version.  My
question (problem) is about the 'show' image on the Project screen.  I
didn't have any problem with the pre-1.0, but cannot seem to get rid of the
picture once it 'shows' it in this version.  I have successfully gotten this
to work a couple of times with this version, but what gives?  When it
doesn't work I end up having to give the Amy the 'ole 3 finger salute;
promptly followed by a 1 finger salute (of course it doesn't understand
that hand gesture).

PLEASE send any helpful information you may have.  This will surely drive
me mad if I do not resolve it soon.

Later,
Jeff

IN: [e-mail]

##

Subject: Another weird request...
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 91 13:05:41 PDT
From: Daryl T. Bartley <[e-mail]>

I just saw 'Flight of the Navigator' again last night, and all that GREAT
computer animation set me wondering if it would be possible (Maybe with the
Forms editor?) to recreate, or closely approximate the ship from that movie,
and maybe get it to morph too. Am I just dreaming? Also, since it WAS
originally computer generated, maybe someone knows where it could be had, and
(HA HA HA HA HA) converted? (continue hysterics)

Well, anyway, just wondering.

Oh, also, thanks for the info Mark. It would be really neat to have that as a
texture. I'll look into it. Or also, would it be possible to maybe map 3 or 4
different brushes with varying colors onto a disc, and move them around? Or,
maybe 2color brushes, both transparent, and the surface of the disc mirrored?

Just some more weird thoughts. I really shouldn't watch TV at 3 am...

Daryl Bartley
[e-mail]
--
This is only a test. Had this been a real .sig, the previous message would
have been followed by witty quotes or neat character graphics.

##

Subject: Re:  DCTV & you & me
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 91 13:34:01 EDT
From: [e-mail] (John Rosner)

I use DCTV & Imagine.  DCTV does great composite output to TV, that is
to a composite monitor which is the same as TV.  I've encoded to VHS
tape and played it back on a real TV and it looks great, whereas the
A520 (?) encoder that I have also used did not look good at all.  I
don't use super-VHS yet and I don't know if there would be a noticeable
degradation with the higher quality signal, probably, but it works
great with VHS.  DCTV is supposed to be coming out with an RGB adapter,
until then don't compare it with RGB.

DCTV accepts Imagine 24 bit files, full overscan with no problem.
Animation took me a while to realize not to use overscan.  Right now I
just generate 640 x 400 files to put together in DPaint as anims.

##

Subject: Imagine 2.0 ?? Hmm...
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 91 19:46:45 MET DST
From: [e-mail]

A swedish dealer says he is selling Imagine 2.0.. Even if he hasn't got it
for delivery yet... Sooo... tell me, is he right or very wrong?


   - Henrik


>> Insert your favourite flashy .sig here <<  :)
Internet: [e-mail]

##

Subject: DCTV
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 91 14:19:31 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Rob Borsari)

I render for DCTV in 736x482 24bit RGB8.  I use diskmaster to convert the
rgb8s and have had no problems with this screen size.  I also use 3
bitplanes instead of 4 for speed.  The output of the DCTV matches the effective
resolution of VHS nicely.  Im not sure how much improvement there will be if
the RGB converter just converts an NTSC signal to RGBA.  if it somehow uses the
data before it becomes Never Twice the Same Color then it shopuuld be awesome.
-R-
[e-mail]   Rob Borsari   "Bourne to be Wild"

##

Subject: Re:  DCTV & you & me
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 91 19:57:00 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Bob Lindabury - SysAdm)

rutgers!handel.asd.contel.com!rosner (John Rosner) writes:

> DCTV accepts Imagine 24 bit files, full overscan with no problem.
> Animation took me a while to realize not to use overscan.  Right now I
> just generate 640 x 400 files to put together in DPaint as anims.

Huh?  If you are going to video tape for viewing on a regular TV, you
had best use full overscan unless you like all your animations with
big borders around them. <grin>

-- Bob

 The Graphics BBS  908/469-0049  "It's better than a sharp stick in the eye!"
 ============================================================================
  InterNet: [e-mail]                | Raven Enterprises
      UUCP: ...rutgers!bobsbox!graphics!bobl      | 25 Raven Avenue
    BitNet: bobl%graphics.rent.com@pucc           | Piscataway, NJ 08854
    Home #: 908/560-7353                          | 908/271-8878

##

Subject: Re:  DCTV & animation
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 91 16:31:37 EDT
From: [e-mail] (John Rosner)

>I render for DCTV in 736x482 24bit RGB8.  I use diskmaster to convert
>the rgb8s and have had no problems with this screen size.  I also use 3
>bitplanes instead of 4 for speed.

Stills at this resolution are no problem.  Playing an anim creates
garbage but then I'm using DPaint III for assembling them.  Has anyone
used DPaint III to assemble 24 bit full overscan images from Imagine
and played it on DCTV?  What do you mean you use diskmaster?  Isn't
that a file managing utility?

##

Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1991 14:57:55 +0200
Subject: Animation.
From: Marek Rzewuski <[e-mail]>

I have problems with creating animation using Imagine 1.1.
Imagine three boxes. The first one is biggest en the last one
is smallest. Imagine standing on top of the first (the biggest)
box, looking towards the third box.

***********
*         *
*   1     *      *******
*         *      * 2   *      *****
*         *      *     *      * 3 *
***********      *******      *****

I want to make an animation where I jump from the first box, to the
second, from the second to the third, turn 180 degrees, look upwards,
jump up the the second box again, jump up to the first box and finaly
turn 180 degrees and look at the third box again.
I think that the accelation should be very important here, but I
don't know where to start.

Could anyone give me some hints?

In advance thank you.

[e-mail] (Marek Rzewuski)

##

Subject: DCTV
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 91 12:40:58 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Rob Borsari)

Part of my last message got cut off.  I use diskmaster as a front end for
IFFTODCTV.  I then use buildanim to create the anim and view to show it.
View also has "movie" sound support.  (anyone want to sell a used copy of
animation station?) I have never tried to use dpaint to assemble the anim.
I havent had anyproblems using buildanim (PD).  I tried makeanim but it
would crash the computer every time I tried to play the result.
   Has anyone tried to use "Video enhancers or stabilizers" with dctv?
does it help?  -R-
[e-mail]  Rob Borsari   "Bourne to Be wild"

##

Subject: Shininess?
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 91 20:46:50 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Matt Feifarek)

I wanted to find out what the difference between Hardness and SHininess was,
so I made a grid of spheres with appropriate hardness and shininess values.

To my surprise, shininess had no effect.  The hardness varied the Hot Spot,
but shininess did nothing.

I put the pic on hubcap in the IMAGINE/PICTURES directory.  Let me know if
anybody figures this out.

Thanks,
MJF

##

Subject: Imagine the Toaster
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 91 12:31:19 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Alan Price)

Hello. My questions always tend to get a bit long-winded, but I will try
to keep it concise. This question is aimed at Imagine users who also own
a Video Toaster.

Situation:  I render two images, pic.0001 and pic.0002, in the same project
and the same rendering subproject with Imagine (736x480, 24-bit ilbm) and
then load the Toaster, load Toaster-paint, attempt to load pic.0001 as RGB
file and the computer crashes after a quick light-show.

SO I dig up the PD program 'Convert' (written for Black-Belt, HAM-E) which
converts many different image files to 'vanilla' 24bit iff. I convert pic.0001
and then attempt to load that into Toaster-paint. Worked perfect.

I then proceed to use convert on pic.0002, it starts reading the Imagine 24-bit
file as a ham file ("converting HAM to RGB....")! Break! This did'nt work.
After a few more tries and double-checks I went ahead and tried loading
pic.0002 into Toaster-paint. It worked! Why?

Well if pic.0002 loaded okay, then pic.0001 should too, right? Wrong. I went
back and tried loading the unadulterated Imagine pic.0001 and crashed again.

Pic.0001 only loaded if converted with 'convert'.
Pic.0002 would not be read correctly by convert, but would load into Toaster
paint without it.

Both pic.0001 and pic.0002 should be identical in all respects. What gives?
This has happened more than a few times. Has anyone had similar experience?

P.S. - the last time the toaster crashed on this (last night), it seems it
blew my battery-backed clock away!! The system can't find it anymore. Pardon
my ignorance, but where is it located in a A2500? I want to check the battery
and maybe wiggle it some. Any suggestions? I hate the idea of taking the
computer out of commision just for a @$*#!! clock.

AP.

##

Subject: Best way to view Imagine stills...
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 91 12:30:22 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey W Davis)

I don't know if anyone else is doing this, but I have found the best way
to view Imagine still pictures on a stock Amiga is through DigiView.

Render the picture in 768 x 480 and store it as 24 bit ILBM.  Select the
Dynamic-HAM option in Digiview and then load the frame.  The stills I
have done this way really look great; especially with respect to glass
and light reflections.

Just a neat observation for those who may not have thought about it.

Later,
Jeff

IN: [e-mail]

##

Subject: Shininess
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 91 17:02:49 EDT
From: [e-mail] (John J Humpal)

Matt Feifarek writes:
> I wanted to find out what the difference between Hardness and SHininess was,
> so I made a grid of spheres with appropriate hardness and shininess values.
> To my surprise, shininess had no effect.  The hardness varied the Hot Spot,
> but shininess did nothing.

    I've seen Louis Markoya's Surface Master and he did the same thing.
But in Markoya's images, shininess definitely had a subtle effect.

John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer

##

Subject:  Where is Colorburst?!?!? (Grrr)
Date:     Mon, 24 Jun 91 12:52 EST
From: <[e-mail]>

Hi,
        Sorry to take up bandwidth but I am very upset... Colorburst
still has not gotten FCC approval because it needs more shielding!!!!
What is taking so long!@?!?!!?  Why don't they just slap some
metal on it or something... another thing is HAM-E + now looks like
a better buy because with with the RGB encoder for HAM-E + I can
get a higher res than DCTV in RGB (can't stand NTSC!!!!).  Not only
that but HAM-E+ is still cheaper than DCTV!!!!  And there are FREE
UPGRADES!!!!
        Another thing is could somebody help me out... I am wondering
how can I print the graphics output from a basic program to printer
or could I have the image saved to IFF and then print it in DPaint?
Is there a Fish Disk that will help me... I am working on Lester Ford's
Circles on a non-Euclidean Hyperbolic plane.  (By the way, does anyone have
a Vista File format of Mandelbroits Apelenoinous Gasket???)

                                Thank You Very Much

                                J.Norell Guttman
                                [e-mail]
PS>  Sorry to post non-Imagine material but I am here at Summer School
and Fordham does not have internet (USENET ) access... the only way I can keep
in contact is have the email forwarded from CWRU to here.

##

Subject: Colorburst
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 91 13:36:46 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Aaron Tucker)

Well, I can't tell you where Colorburst is at...that would take too long. I can
tell you where it is not...the US. There are very few Colorbursts (less than
100) in the US. MAST has been shipping to every country except the US for two
months now. MAST has FCC Class A approval. MAST will ramp up production of the
NTSC units when they receive Class B approval for general use. Until then, NTSC
units are scarce, sacred, and look damn good when you do see one. :-)

This is not speculation or rumor. This is directly from a MAST employee. Me.
If you have any direct Colorburst questions (other than when it is shipping in
the US), call me (Juan Trevino) at [phone]. I will be happy to answer
any technical or not so technical questions.

BTW, if enough of us complain, maybe we can get Impulse to support Colorburst
directly with IMAGINE. Every other ray-tracing package will. I think IMAGINE
is great, but I think Impulse needs to seperate thier hardware from thier
software in terms of marketing. This last paragraph is an opinion of Juan
Trevino, not MAST. Add the usual disclaimer.

Juan Trevino
[e-mail]

##

Subject: Colors
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 91 13:00:01 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Steven Lee Webb)

This is a small list that I use for getting colors right.
Perhaps someone else would find it handy.
-- [e-mail]

COLOR                       R   G   B
--------------------------------------
alice blue                 240 248 255
aliceblue                  240 248 255
antique white              250 235 215
antiquewhite               250 235 215
antiquewhite1              255 239 219
antiquewhite2              238 223 204
antiquewhite3              205 192 176
antiquewhite4              139 131 120
aquamarine                 127 255 212
aquamarine1                127 255 212
aquamarine2                118 238 198
aquamarine3                102 205 170
aquamarine4                 69 139 116
azure                      240 255 255
azure1                     240 255 255
azure2                     224 238 238
azure3                     193 205 205
azure4                     131 139 139
beige                      245 245 220
bisque                     255 228 196
bisque1                    255 228 196
bisque2                    238 213 183
bisque3                    205 183 158
bisque4                    139 125 107
black                        0   0   0
blanched almond            255 235 205
blanchedalmond             255 235 205
blue                         0   0 255
blue violet                138  43 226
blue1                        0   0 255
blue2                        0   0 238
blue3                        0   0 205
blue4                        0   0 139
blueviolet                 138  43 226
brown                      165  42  42
brown1                     255  64  64
brown2                     238  59  59
brown3                     205  51  51
brown4                     139  35  35
burlywood                  222 184 135
burlywood1                 255 211 155
burlywood2                 238 197 145
burlywood3                 205 170 125
burlywood4                 139 115  85
cadet blue                  95 158 160
cadetblue                   95 158 160
cadetblue1                 152 245 255
cadetblue2                 142 229 238
cadetblue3                 122 197 205
cadetblue4                  83 134 139
chartreuse                 127 255   0
chartreuse1                127 255   0
chartreuse2                118 238   0
chartreuse3                102 205   0
chartreuse4                 69 139   0
chocolate                  210 105  30
chocolate1                 255 127  36
chocolate2                 238 118  33
chocolate3                 205 102  29
chocolate4                 139  69  19
coral                      255 127  80
coral1                     255 114  86
coral2                     238 106  80
coral3                     205  91  69
coral4                     139  62  47
cornflower blue            100 149 237
cornflowerblue             100 149 237
cornsilk                   255 248 220
cornsilk1                  255 248 220
cornsilk2                  238 232 205
cornsilk3                  205 200 177
cornsilk4                  139 136 120
cyan                         0 255 255
cyan1                        0 255 255
cyan2                        0 238 238
cyan3                        0 205 205
cyan4                        0 139 139
dark goldenrod             184 134  11
dark green                   0 100   0
dark khaki                 189 183 107
dark olive green            85 107  47
dark orange                255 140   0
dark orchid                153  50 204
dark salmon                233 150 122
dark sea green             143 188 143
dark slate blue             72  61 139
dark slate gray             47  79  79
dark turquoise               0 206 209
dark violet                148   0 211
darkgoldenrod              184 134  11
darkgoldenrod1             255 185  15
darkgoldenrod2             238 173  14
darkgoldenrod3             205 149  12
darkgoldenrod4             139 101   8
darkgreen                    0 100   0
darkkhaki                  189 183 107
darkolivegreen              85 107  47
darkolivegreen1            202 255 112
darkolivegreen2            188 238 104
darkolivegreen3            162 205  90
darkolivegreen4            110 139  61
darkorange                 255 140   0
darkorange1                255 127   0
darkorange2                238 118   0
darkorange3                205 102   0
darkorange4                139  69   0
darkorchid                 153  50 204
darkorchid1                191  62 255
darkorchid2                178  58 238
darkorchid3                154  50 205
darkorchid4                104  34 139
darksalmon                 233 150 122
darkseagreen               143 188 143
darkseagreen1              193 255 193
darkseagreen2              180 238 180
darkseagreen3              155 205 155
darkseagreen4              105 139 105
darkslateblue               72  61 139
darkslategray               47  79  79
darkslategray1             151 255 255
darkslategray2             141 238 238
darkslategray3             121 205 205
darkslategray4              82 139 139
darkturquoise                0 206 209
darkviolet                 148   0 211
deep pink                  255  20 147
deep sky blue                0 191 255
deeppink                   255  20 147
deeppink1                  255  20 147
deeppink2                  238  18 137
deeppink3                  205  16 118
deeppink4                  139  10  80
deepskyblue                  0 191 255
deepskyblue1                 0 191 255
deepskyblue2                 0 178 238
deepskyblue3                 0 154 205
deepskyblue4                 0 104 139
dodger blue                 30 144 255
dodgerblue                  30 144 255
dodgerblue1                 30 144 255
dodgerblue2                 28 134 238
dodgerblue3                 24 116 205
dodgerblue4                 16  78 139
firebrick                  178  34  34
firebrick1                 255  48  48
firebrick2                 238  44  44
firebrick3                 205  38  38
firebrick4                 139  26  26
floral white               255 250 240
floralwhite                255 250 240
forest green                34 139  34
forestgreen                 34 139  34
gainsboro                  220 220 220
ghost white                248 248 255
ghostwhite                 248 248 255
gold                       255 215   0
gold1                      255 215   0
gold2                      238 201   0
gold3                      205 173   0
gold4                      139 117   0
goldenrod                  218 165  32
goldenrod1                 255 193  37
goldenrod2                 238 180  34
goldenrod3                 205 155  29
goldenrod4                 139 105  20
green                        0 255   0
green yellow               173 255  47
green1                       0 255   0
green2                       0 238   0
green3                       0 205   0
green4                       0 139   0
greenyellow                173 255  47
honeydew                   240 255 240
honeydew1                  240 255 240
honeydew2                  224 238 224
honeydew3                  193 205 193
honeydew4                  131 139 131
hot pink                   255 105 180
hotpink                    255 105 180
hotpink1                   255 110 180
hotpink2                   238 106 167
hotpink3                   205  96 144
hotpink4                   139  58  98
indian red                 205  92  92
indianred                  205  92  92
indianred1                 255 106 106
indianred2                 238  99  99
indianred3                 205  85  85
indianred4                 139  58  58
ivory                      255 255 240
ivory1                     255 255 240
ivory2                     238 238 224
ivory3                     205 205 193
ivory4                     139 139 131
khaki                      240 230 140
khaki1                     255 246 143
khaki2                     238 230 133
khaki3                     205 198 115
khaki4                     139 134  78
lavender                   230 230 250
lavender blush             255 240 245
lavenderblush              255 240 245
lavenderblush1             255 240 245
lavenderblush2             238 224 229
lavenderblush3             205 193 197
lavenderblush4             139 131 134
lawn green                 124 252   0
lawngreen                  124 252   0
lemon chiffon              255 250 205
lemonchiffon               255 250 205
lemonchiffon1              255 250 205
lemonchiffon2              238 233 191
lemonchiffon3              205 201 165
lemonchiffon4              139 137 112
light blue                 173 216 230
light coral                240 128 128
light cyan                 224 255 255
light goldenrod            238 221 130
light goldenrod yellow     250 250 210
light gray                 211 211 211
light pink                 255 182 193
light salmon               255 160 122
light sea green             32 178 170
light sky blue             135 206 250
light slate blue           132 112 255
light slate gray           119 136 153
light steel blue           176 196 222
light yellow               255 255 224
lightblue                  173 216 230
lightblue1                 191 239 255
lightblue2                 178 223 238
lightblue3                 154 192 205
lightblue4                 104 131 139
lightcoral                 240 128 128
lightcyan                  224 255 255
lightcyan1                 224 255 255
lightcyan2                 209 238 238
lightcyan3                 180 205 205
lightcyan4                 122 139 139
lightgoldenrod             238 221 130
lightgoldenrod1            255 236 139
lightgoldenrod2            238 220 130
lightgoldenrod3            205 190 112
lightgoldenrod4            139 129  76
lightpink                  255 182 193
lightpink1                 255 174 185
lightpink2                 238 162 173
lightpink3                 205 140 149
lightpink4                 139  95 101
lightsalmon                255 160 122
lightsalmon1               255 160 122
lightsalmon2               238 149 114
lightsalmon3               205 129  98
lightsalmon4               139  87  66
lightseagreen               32 178 170
lightskyblue               135 206 250
lightskyblue1              176 226 255
lightskyblue2              164 211 238
lightskyblue3              141 182 205
lightskyblue4               96 123 139
lightslateblue             132 112 255
lightslategray             119 136 153
lightsteelblue             176 196 222
lightsteelblue1            202 225 255
lightsteelblue2            188 210 238
lightsteelblue3            162 181 205
lightsteelblue4            110 123 139
lightyellow                255 255 224
lightyellow1               255 255 224
lightyellow2               238 238 209
lightyellow3               205 205 180
lightyellow4               139 139 122
lime green                  50 205  50
limegreen                   50 205  50
linen                      250 240 230
magenta                    255   0 255
magenta1                   255   0 255
magenta2                   238   0 238
magenta3                   205   0 205
magenta4                   139   0 139
maroon                     176  48  96
maroon1                    255  52 179
maroon2                    238  48 167
maroon3                    205  41 144
maroon4                    139  28  98
medium aquamarine          102 205 170
medium blue                  0   0 205
medium orchid              186  85 211
medium purple              147 112 219
medium sea green            60 179 113
medium slate blue          123 104 238
medium spring green          0 250 154
medium turquoise            72 209 204
medium violet red          199  21 133
mediumaquamarine           102 205 170
mediumblue                   0   0 205
mediumorchid               186  85 211
mediumorchid1              224 102 255
mediumorchid2              209  95 238
mediumorchid3              180  82 205
mediumorchid4              122  55 139
mediumpurple               147 112 219
mediumpurple1              171 130 255
mediumpurple2              159 121 238
mediumpurple3              137 104 205
mediumpurple4               93  71 139
mediumseagreen              60 179 113
mediumslateblue            123 104 238
mediumspringgreen            0 250 154
mediumturquoise             72 209 204
mediumvioletred            199  21 133
midnight blue               25  25 112
midnightblue                25  25 112
mint cream                 245 255 250
mintcream                  245 255 250
misty rose                 255 228 225
mistyrose                  255 228 225
mistyrose1                 255 228 225
mistyrose2                 238 213 210
mistyrose3                 205 183 181
mistyrose4                 139 125 123
moccasin                   255 228 181
navajo white               255 222 173
navajowhite                255 222 173
navajowhite1               255 222 173
navajowhite2               238 207 161
navajowhite3               205 179 139
navajowhite4               139 121  94
navy                         0   0 128
navy blue                    0   0 128
navyblue                     0   0 128
old lace                   253 245 230
oldlace                    253 245 230
olive drab                 107 142  35
olivedrab                  107 142  35
olivedrab1                 192 255  62
olivedrab2                 179 238  58
olivedrab3                 154 205  50
olivedrab4                 105 139  34
orange                     255 165   0
orange red                 255  69   0
orange1                    255 165   0
orange2                    238 154   0
orange3                    205 133   0
orange4                    139  90   0
orangered                  255  69   0
orangered1                 255  69   0
orangered2                 238  64   0
orangered3                 205  55   0
orangered4                 139  37   0
orchid                     218 112 214
orchid1                    255 131 250
orchid2                    238 122 233
orchid3                    205 105 201
orchid4                    139  71 137
pale goldenrod             238 232 170
pale green                 152 251 152
pale turquoise             175 238 238
pale violet red            219 112 147
palegoldenrod              238 232 170
palegreen                  152 251 152
palegreen1                 154 255 154
palegreen2                 144 238 144
palegreen3                 124 205 124
palegreen4                  84 139  84
paleturquoise              175 238 238
paleturquoise1             187 255 255
paleturquoise2             174 238 238
paleturquoise3             150 205 205
paleturquoise4             102 139 139
palevioletred              219 112 147
palevioletred1             255 130 171
palevioletred2             238 121 159
palevioletred3             205 104 137
palevioletred4             139  71  93
papaya whip                255 239 213
papayawhip                 255 239 213
peach puff                 255 218 185
peachpuff                  255 218 185
peachpuff1                 255 218 185
peachpuff2                 238 203 173
peachpuff3                 205 175 149
peachpuff4                 139 119 101
peru                       205 133  63
pink                       255 192 203
pink1                      255 181 197
pink2                      238 169 184
pink3                      205 145 158
pink4                      139  99 108
plum                       221 160 221
plum1                      255 187 255
plum2                      238 174 238
plum3                      205 150 205
plum4                      139 102 139
powder blue                176 224 230
powderblue                 176 224 230
purple                     160  32 240
purple1                    155  48 255
purple2                    145  44 238
purple3                    125  38 205
purple4                     85  26 139
red                        255   0   0
red1                       255   0   0
red2                       238   0   0
red3                       205   0   0
red4                       139   0   0
rosy brown                 188 143 143
rosybrown                  188 143 143
rosybrown1                 255 193 193
rosybrown2                 238 180 180
rosybrown3                 205 155 155
rosybrown4                 139 105 105
royal blue                  65 105 225
royalblue                   65 105 225
royalblue1                  72 118 255
royalblue2                  67 110 238
royalblue3                  58  95 205
royalblue4                  39  64 139
saddle brown               139  69  19
saddlebrown                139  69  19
salmon                     250 128 114
salmon1                    255 140 105
salmon2                    238 130  98
salmon3                    205 112  84
salmon4                    139  76  57
sandy brown                244 164  96
sandybrown                 244 164  96
sea green                   46 139  87
seagreen                    46 139  87
seagreen1                   84 255 159
seagreen2                   78 238 148
seagreen3                   67 205 128
seagreen4                   46 139  87
seashell                   255 245 238
seashell1                  255 245 238
seashell2                  238 229 222
seashell3                  205 197 191
seashell4                  139 134 130
sienna                     160  82  45
sienna1                    255 130  71
sienna2                    238 121  66
sienna3                    205 104  57
sienna4                    139  71  38
sky blue                   135 206 235
skyblue                    135 206 235
skyblue1                   135 206 255
skyblue2                   126 192 238
skyblue3                   108 166 205
skyblue4                    74 112 139
slate blue                 106  90 205
slate gray                 112 128 144
slateblue                  106  90 205
slateblue1                 131 111 255
slateblue2                 122 103 238
slateblue3                 105  89 205
slateblue4                  71  60 139
slategray                  112 128 144
slategray1                 198 226 255
slategray2                 185 211 238
slategray3                 159 182 205
slategray4                 108 123 139
snow                       255 250 250
snow1                      255 250 250
snow2                      238 233 233
snow3                      205 201 201
snow4                      139 137 137
spring green                 0 255 127
springgreen                  0 255 127
springgreen1                 0 255 127
springgreen2                 0 238 118
springgreen3                 0 205 102
springgreen4                 0 139  69
steel blue                  70 130 180
steelblue                   70 130 180
steelblue1                  99 184 255
steelblue2                  92 172 238
steelblue3                  79 148 205
steelblue4                  54 100 139
tan                        210 180 140
tan1                       255 165  79
tan2                       238 154  73
tan3                       205 133  63
tan4                       139  90  43
thistle                    216 191 216
thistle1                   255 225 255
thistle2                   238 210 238
thistle3                   205 181 205
thistle4                   139 123 139
tomato                     255  99  71
tomato1                    255  99  71
tomato2                    238  92  66
tomato3                    205  79  57
tomato4                    139  54  38
turquoise                   64 224 208
turquoise1                   0 245 255
turquoise2                   0 229 238
turquoise3                   0 197 205
turquoise4                   0 134 139
violet                     238 130 238
violet red                 208  32 144
violetred                  208  32 144
violetred1                 255  62 150
violetred2                 238  58 140
violetred3                 205  50 120
violetred4                 139  34  82
wheat                      245 222 179
wheat1                     255 231 186
wheat2                     238 216 174
wheat3                     205 186 150
wheat4                     139 126 102
white                      255 255 255
white smoke                245 245 245
whitesmoke                 245 245 245
yellow                     255 255   0
yellow green               154 205  50
yellow1                    255 255   0
yellow2                    238 238   0
yellow3                    205 205   0
yellow4                    139 139   0
yellowgreen                154 205  50

##

Subject: lots-o-colors-wit-goofy-names
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 91 16:11:24 EDT
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

> This is a small list that I use for getting colors right.
> Perhaps someone else would find it handy.
> -- [e-mail]

...[butt-loads of color definitions deleted]...

Boy oh boy, doesn't that look ridiculously similar to /usr/lib/X11/rgb/rgb.txt
on an X11 system?! :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  |
| --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   |
|      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   |
|     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   |
|                                                                          |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

##

Subject: Imagine upgrades!
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 91 18:50:19 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Steven Lee Webb)

             Predicted outcome of future releases of Imagine.

VERSION 1.0 - buggier than Main in June; eats data.

VERSION 1.1 - eats data only occasionally; upgrade is free, to avoid litigation
by disgruntled users of Version 1.0.

VERSION 2.0 - the version originally planned as the first release, except for a
couple of data-eating bugs that just don't seem to go away;
no free upgrades or the company would go bankrupt.

VERSION 3.0 - the version in the works when the company goes bankrupt.



-- NOTE --

This is just a joke, please don't make this the beginning of a bad rumor!

##

Subject: Flight of the Navigator...
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 91 1:47:44 PDT
From: Daryl T. Bartley <[e-mail]>

Yes, I am at it again...Well, supposing it IS possible to build a navigator-
like ship in Imagine (or Lightwave, or whatever), would it also be possible to
do the same kind of effect? Perhaps by digitizing in the scenery, either
mapping the series of pics onto the object, or using them as global brushmaps
in order to get the reflection of the 'real world' onto the object, and THEN
rendering the object, with its reflections, on a genlock blakc background, then
overlaying it onto the video that it is reflecting? (whew)...Just curious as if
it COULD be done, this is nothing I could ever do myself...

Yet another one of those ideas I get from watching TV at 1:30 am...:)

Also, is everyone out of town for the 4th of July, or is it just that no one is
posting to the list?

Thanks in advance for info/howtos...

Daryl Bartley
[e-mail]
--
This is a test, only a test. Had this been a real .sig, the previous message
would have been followed by witty quotes and nifty character graphics.

##

Subject: Re: Flight of the Navigator...
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 91 11:15:18 EDT
From: [e-mail] (John J Humpal)

Daryl Bartley writes:
> would it also be possible to do thesame kind of effect? Perhaps by
> digitizing in the scenery, either mapping the series of pics onto the
> object, or using them as global brushmaps in order to get the reflection
> of the 'real world' onto the object, and THEN rendering...

    What about using VistaPro to generate a landscape for the ship to fly
around in?

> Also, is everyone out of town for the 4th of July, or is it just that no one
> is posting to the list?

    I'm not!  This is home for me.

> Daryl Bartley
> [e-mail]

John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer

##

Subject: Virtual memory
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 91 18:08 MET
From: "Arthur van Rooijen, PTT RESEARCH, The Netherlands"
 <[e-mail]>

Hello fellow Imaginaries,

Since a couple of weeks I am the happy onwer of a EVOLUTION SCSI-II
controller with a 320 MB harddisk. One of the features of this
controller is that it can use a part of the disk as virtual memory.
When you have a MMU (I have a A2630 board) then you can use this feature.
I have have reserved 30 MB of the disk as virtual memory. The problem is
that I don't have a real application that uses enough memory to
efficiently test this virtual memory feature. So I'm looking for a big
Imagine project that uses at least 8 MBytes of memory. I hope that
somebody has such a project available for me. If so can you please send
it to me. When there is enough interest in the outcome of my test I
shall post it to the net.

--
                        Arthur van Rooijen

 PTT Research Neher Laboratories,    Phone  : [phone]
 2260 AK Leidschendam,               Telefax: [phone]
 P.O. box 421,                       Telex  : 31236 prnl nl
 The Netherlands.
                                           +----------------------------------
 Domain        : [e-mail]     |  As the people here grow colder
 EARN/BITnet   : [e-mail]    |  I turn to my computer
 PSS (DATAnet1): [phone]::ROOIJEN |  And spend my evenings with it
 SURFNET-2     : [phone]::ROOIJEN   |  Like a friend       "Kate Bush"

##

Subject: Re: Virtual memory
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 91 10:19:22 EDT
From: [e-mail] (John J Humpal)

It shouldn't be terribly hard to generate an Imagine project that eats up the
megabytes.  How about a 50 frame anim with a few 24-bit brush wraps?  That
should do it I'd think.  Especially if the anim involves a lot of camera
movement.

John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer


##

Subject: animbrush + cycle bug?
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 91 13:46:07 EST
From: [e-mail] (Martin Gardiner)

Well I just started an animation that needed the uses of the animated
brush on an object that was produced through the cycle editor, but
it does not seem to work.  It seems that the function was not updated
with the rest of imagine when it when to 1.1V.  Well I have used the
animated brush before and it worked.

Can anybody confirm that this function, animated brushes for texture
maps on cycle objects does, or does not work.

Note to Programs :
addition 1:
  To save on disk space, and work, with the animated texture map function
please make it so as if the image file is not there, use the last version
of the image that can be found.
  eg. If you can't find image.0005, look for image.0004 .... till
        image.0001 before finding error (you may wish to report rendering
        issues to render-out text file).

addition 2:
  Cut and Paste in the action editor, not just single bits, but single and
colomn C+P, would improve the Animators flexablity.  I would also be great
if the action (staging information) were a text editable file.

addition 3:
  Spline, editable, in-betweening (check-out Electric Image Apple software,
Light-wave etc..) could be the thing that makes me stay with or leave
imagine.

addition 4:
  A way to compact action information in a single line when you have finished
editing it for the moment (you still need to see the line for colour, but they
don't need to be more than one pixel), a compated, de-compated function, along
with a way to move actors around, so as when to actors interact, you can see
when things are happening. It would also be nice when you return to the action
editor, that you start where you left it.

addition 5:
  The surport of AREXX, please, please, please.  I have written Sony video
disks recorder software, and have a colourburst.  I used AREXX, and ADPro to
record my 'A Martin Gardiner Production' down to video disk, but would love
to have just used imagine (without the 80M storage of images for Lo-res, non-
interlace, would record it in high lace if I had the 300M I needed) wich would
allow me to get away with less storage.

I would go on, but I don't know that the right people will get to read this.

Note: good luck with the rendering bugs, and keep the action editor in some
      form.  Its the thing I like the most about imagine.

If the programmers of Imagine send me mail, I will reply. But I will be away
for the next four weeks, at the World of Commodore, here in OZ.  So if any
of them are there, they can look me up.  I'll be at the GVP stand most of the
time.

I am regarded as one of OZ best commercial Amiga programmers, working in
graphics, sound, process control, and comms.  I also hope to win the OZ
animation competition with my first imagine production.

Martin Gardiner

##

Subject: In Search of Gary
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 91 12:03:18 CDT
From: Wayne Haufler 283-4160 <[e-mail]>

Hello,

Is there a Gary Dominquez (spelling?) out there in Imagin(ation) land?
Does anybody know him or how to get in touch with him?
Or is there a way to get a list of subscribers to the Imagine Mailing List?
I will later post this to the comp.sys.amiga.graphics newsgroup.

I saw Gary's "Burning Desire" animation (using Turbo Silver) on the
Amiga World's Animation Video Vol. II.  He also used the title "The
Electric Pallet".  I was impressed, and would like to ask Gary how he
did certain things.  I also think we may have some common motivations.
My address is "[e-mail]".

                Thank You
                Wayne

===============================================================================
          ____  Wayne A. Haufler     ([e-mail])
\\   /\\   /\\   //    McDonnell Douglas Space Systems Company - Houston Div.
 \\ /--\\ // \\ //--[Christian/Lutheran/SW Engineer/Amigan/Tenor/Violist/Single
  \//   \//   \//___   "Exploring the Use of Computer Graphics and Animations"
        //                   "To Serve and Support Christian Endeavors"
       //
               !!CAUTION: SIGNATURE UNDER CONSTRUCTION!!
===============================================================================

##

Subject: Re: In Search of Gary
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 91 13:14:57 -0500
From: Donald Richard Tillery Jr <[e-mail]>

Gary is a proud member of OACES (Oklahoma Amiga Computer EnthusiastS) here
in central Oklahoma.  He does not have net access, but I have been a go
between for him (I uploaded several megs of his stuff to ab20 a while back)
and can continue to do so if you desire.  I can ask him if I can give you his
phone number if you'd rather talk to him personally (or if you'r rich, you can
grab a plane to OKC tomorrow night - Tuesday July 2, 1991 - and meet him in
person at Oklahoma City Community College between 6 and 10pm for our users
group meeting).

I'm glad someone finally mentioned his animation from the tape, I was beginning
to wonder if anyone had seen it.

May I ask a question that he was wondering about (he probably already has the
tape and the answer, but I haven't seen him since last Thursday):  was the
sound synchronized with the animation?  He used an older version of Animation
Station to put the thing together, and when he got the upgrade, the sound was
out of sync.  He was wondering if Amiga World had the correct version so the
sound came out right.

Rick Tillery ([e-mail])

##

Subject: Re: Virtual memory
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 91 15:11:31 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Steven Lee Webb)

>It shouldn't be terribly hard to generate an Imagine project that eats up the
>megabytes.  How about a 50 frame anim with a few 24-bit brush wraps?  That
>should do it I'd think.  Especially if the anim involves a lot of camera
>movement.

>John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer

Want to eat up memory?

Didn't I hear something about a Virtual memory of 30Megs or so?

Try and render a faceted sphere with dimensions of 100,000 X 100,000 or
something preposterous like that!

Or do some fractal renderings!  (You could use TTDDD or something like that)

--
Only  ///|Steven Lee Webb  +---------------------------------------+  /\__Luxo|
Amiga/// |CSU - Comp. Sci. |  11-XAV a edisni deppart ma I !pleH   |  \\ /\ Jr|
 \\\///  |Amiga 500-5M Ram |     [e-mail]     |  /|/\ _  |
  \XX/   |50M Hard Drive   +---------------------------------------+ // \ (_) |

##

Subject: Re: In Search of Gary
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 91 17:22:21 CDT
From: Wayne Haufler 283-4160 <[e-mail]>

Hello,

Rick, thank you for your willingness to be a go-between Gary and I (and
your unexpectedly quick reply B^) ).  I will try to limit the number of
messages so as not to bother you too much.  So, with that in mind, this
message may be rather long in trying to anticipate Gary's questions and
interests.  If these discussions get involved, I may like to call Gary.
(No, I am not quite rich enough to "grab a plane" ; just a middle-class
'inginur' ;) ).  But if he would like to call me, my home phone is
713-996-9926.  BTW, I am a proud member of the Houston Club Amiga.

Gary's "Burning Desire" animation was very well done!  There is a
marvelous richness about it.  Character animation using inanimate
objects is similar in concept to the famous "Luxo Jr" animation.
But how much emotion can be shown by a rigid candle?  The emotional
messages were fairly effectively conveyed through candle contortions,
dream sequences, and sound.  There is a simple, elegant story with
several messages, many of which I have yet to fully grasp.  (I am not a
Liberal Arts type, after all, but how was that for a review? ;^)

First, an answer to your question:
Q: >  was the sound synchronized with the animation?
A:    I did not notice that the sound was out-of-sync, and I think I would
    have noticed that.  I will view it again, tonight.

Second, questions for Gary (Dominquez, right?):
1.  How did you bend the candle using Turbo Silver, before the availability
    of "Magnetism" and "Conform to Sphere/Cylinder" features of Imagine?
    (or am I remembering features wrong?)  Do you have Imagine, now?

2.  How did you model the flickering candle flame?
    Did you make 2 or 3 different objects and then manually change the
    object used in somewhat randomly selected frames?

3.  How did you make the 'Dream Sequences'?
    Did you make small (portion of screen) animations and
    then merged that into a still from the main anim with DPaint?

4.  What 'stuff' (objects?) of yours did you have uploaded to ab20?
    Or is that obvious once I look in ab20?

5.  Was there some allegorical point you were making by having
    the candle use the Bible as a stool?  What is the story behind
    this story?  Just curious.  It might have been funny to have the
    'candle' think of a 'light bulb' to indicate an idea before showing
    the idea, or memory.

6.  Was the active candle intended to be male or female, or does it matter?
    (I suppose I am missing some of the messages since I am not in
    a romantic relationship at the moment :/ .)

7.  But my main question is that, with the use of The Holy Bible
    as an object and with your credits thanking The Lord,
    I was wondering whether you have been, or are interested in,
    (as, presumably, a Christian) using the Amiga graphics and
    animations for the Lord's work?
    And if you have been doing that in whatever way,
    would you write to me about your endeavors?
    If you have not been, I don't mean to pressure you, but consider
    the possibilies B^).

------>    You see, I have been casting about for fellow Christian Amigians
    who are willing to share their ideas and experiences in applying
    the Amiga in Christian ways, and who MAY be interested in later
    collaborating on some graphics and/or animation projects,
    not necessarily limited to Imagine.
    I have several ideas and unfinished projects to describe and share.

8.  As a more specific question, would you like me to send you copies
    of correspondence I have had with two other Christian Amigans?
    These messages describe much of their and my endeavors in
    "Exploring the Use of Computer Graphics and Animations
         To Serve and Support Christian Endeavors".
    (I was tempted to include them in this message, but I may be
    getting ahead of myself, presuming too much.)

BTW, my Amiga 2000 has been in the shop for several weeks now (hard
disk controller problem), but I hope to have it by this weekend.  I
also have ordered an A3000!  I know these are a lot of questions.  No
need to rush an answer.  Or, answer whatever, piecemeal.  Thank you in
advance for corresponding with me.  And thank you again, Rick :^).

                Wayne

P.S.  Enough questions already, Wayne.  Time to send!

===============================================================================
          ____  Wayne A. Haufler     ([e-mail])
\\   /\\   /\\   //    McDonnell Douglas Space Systems Company - Houston Div.
 \\ /--\\ // \\ //--[Christian/Lutheran/SW Engineer/Amigan/Tenor/Violist/Single
  \//   \//   \//___   "Exploring the Use of Computer Graphics and Animations"
        //                   "To Serve and Support Christian Endeavors"
       //
===============================================================================

##

Subject: Hey Kids!
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 91 20:25:55 EDT
From: [e-mail]

Hi, guys! I have started my job, and I now have net access again. Fun and
exciting! I found a nice duplex in Menlo Park (next door to Palo Alto)
and I plan to be at the FAUG meeting next Tuesday (FAUG is the
local Amiga Users group).

A bunch of new people were added to the list. Look out for my
canned introduction.

My conclusion to the Detail Editor Is an outline on honest-to-God
PAPER. I was computerless for over a week, and even though I
brought an A500 with me so I could kill time (a weeks worth) at my hotel,
the TV set had a security cable on it so I couldn't hoook up the Amiga.
I'll write it eventually.  Thanks, by the way, for all the positive
responses I've gotten on it.

For those of you who are looking for the old, old tutorials (On glass,
the Project editor, brush mapping, and textures) they can be found
in the Imagine List archives stuck with all of the archived messages. If
anyone wants to pull them out and put copies into the tutorials
directory, I'd br grateful. Oh, the archive is on the FTP site
hubcap.clemson.edu.

Anyway, just wanted to say hi to everyone. When my 3000 arrives, hopefully
I'll be able to set it up and get working pretty soon. Right now all of
my possessions are on a semi in Wyoming...


-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

PS-   same old mail address! I can telnet from work, and it keeps things
      easier.

PPS-  Thanks to Ed Chadez for being the Emergency Moderator.

PPPS- Anything in particular you'd like to see in tutorials? I'm open.
      my next tutorials will be on 1) Advanced Detail commands
      2) Applied Object Creation  3) Attributes. If you have questions
      ore suggestions, I can incorporate them into the text.

##

Subject: ReQuestions
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 91 12:04:48 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Caleb J. Howard (Product Support))

Hello persons,
I have been using Imagine for a while now, and have made great strides in
understanding its functionality thanks mostly to the various tutorials posted
here.  I still have one or two questions though.
Firstly, I have heard this question before, but not an answer. - How do i make
a ground map repeat in both dimensions.  That is, I specify a brush to repeat
on a ground object, but only get a stripe of my brush, not a full covering.
I have seen an ftp reference, but alas have no ftp connectivity.  perhaps
some kind soul could answer this one for me.
Secondly, I'm having a devil of a time getting lighting to work for me.  I
have a scene with a character sitting at a desk.  a lamp at the desk is on, and
seems to illuminate as it should.  the problem is that the other lights in the
room seem to have little effect on the gloom surrounding the lamp.  I have
cranked the ambient light way up, but this seems only to wash the scene out.
Can some illuminated ;-) person perhaps shed a little light ;-) and write
a lighting tutorial?
thank yous in advance
-caleb

##

Subject: Lighting
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 91 13:56:14 EDT
From: [e-mail]

Caleb, I'm not sure whats up with the 1D infinite brush map. Hmm, I've
never seen it NOT do 2D.

Lighting is kinda tricky. You say that a desk light works, but other
"ambient" lights aren't strong enough. My guess is that you have these
lights set to "Decrease Intensity with Distance", which gives them a
lamp-like warm feeling as opposed to a sun or searchlight. Since the
light decreases to just about nothing after a certain range (a few
hundred units? I can't remember), if the lights are too far away and
set for decreasing intensity they just won't do too much. You could
make them closer, or turn them into a sun-like source. Another idea
would to pop up the ambient light if you have it turned off. I usually
use something like 10 10 10 ambient. Higher values illuminate
everything, but everything looks kinda faded and unnatural. No ambient
light makes evil black shadows, sorta like the NASA photos of
moonwalks.

Good luck!


On another note, there were long (seperate) reviews on DCTV and
Colorburst in the latest Camcorder magazine, July 1991. (Excellent
mag!)  The Colorburst photos had me drooling. So did the DCTV, for
that matter.  There were also reviews for an Amiga genlock (I forget
which) and Broadcast Titler 2.0. A VERY heavily-Amiga-oriented mag, if
you're interested in video production.

Back to work. I gotta memorize all 3736289 of my new co-workers names.

-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

##

Subject: Re: Exiting a Still Display
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 91 09:54:11 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Edward Chadez)

To exit from 'show' while viewing an image, press the escape key.  Make
sure you DO NOT press any mouse buttons.  Why?  'cause the escape key is
monitored by the 'window port' on the main screen.  Pressing the mouse
buttons will actiavte the viewing screen.  Silly..I know.  But that's what
Impulse has told us.

If you happen to press a mouse button, you can always suffel the screens
around.

Edward Chadez
 -Amiga3000-

--
+--//-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
|\X/ [e-mail]/Edward Chadez                CARL Systems(303)861-5319|
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+

##

Subject: Tutorial priority
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 91 19:59:42 EDT
From: [e-mail]

I've gotten a lot of positive response for my tutorials so far, which
always makes me feel good enough to start writing more.

I asked for questions that you might want answered in future tutorials,
and the two main replies I got in personal e-mail were for a Stage Editor
overview and for a description of lighting. This makes me think that perhaps
people would like to see certain topics covered in a different order than
I assumed. Here's my mental "tutorial plan":

Completed tutorials:

The Art of Glass
Project Editor
Forms Editor
Detail Editor (Intro)
Brush Maps
Textures

My mental schedule of the order that I would write future tutorials in:

1) Detail Editor (Advanced Features)
2) Object Design
3) Attributes

Additional tutorials that are kinda obvious:

Cycle Editor
Stage Editor (Split like Detail?)
Lighting (Maybe a "cinematographer" look at layout design)
Animation (USING the Stage tools to make non-lame motion)
Sneaky tricks (bending the rules, especially with TTDDD)
Project design (overview of making an anim from concept to rendering)
Accessories (using other programs and hardware to support and complement
             Imagine)
Intro (to newcomers- VERY important, but perhaps the hardest to write...)


Anyway, my question is whether I should re-prioritize the order of
these tutorials?  I could see why people might want a Stage tutorial
before a Cycle tutorial, since the Stage is really necessary to get
anything done and Cycle is powerful, but not necessary for beginners.
Since it takes WEEKS to write for a full-blown tutorial, spending my
time on the most "useful" tutorial is most logical.  What I'd really
like is for people to send me personal e-mail with a ranking of the
"criticality" of each tutorial, as well as suggestions for additional
tutorials or questions you'd like answered in them.

Remember that each tutorial takes a while for my slow fingers to type
out... that 70K Detail intro was easily 30 hours of work!

Thanks again for the positive responses, everyone.

-Steve

PS- hope to meet some of you this Tuesday at the FAUG meeting!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

##

Subject: Terminator 2...
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 91 2:22:51 PDT
From: Daryl T. Bartley <[e-mail]>

Yes, it's me again...just saw T2:judgement day, and the INCREDIBLE (pant gasp)
graphics...got me to wondering just how closely something like that (note the
'something LIKE that', I don't mean replication!) could be approximated using
Imagine or Lightwave, and how a large amount of morphing could be done like
that. Also, any more ideas on getting mirrored objects into the 'real' world?

Just some more crazed thoughts...happy 4th o' july, also (I can see all the
animations made with Explode now...;) )...

P.S. Thanks to John J Humpal for the response and help, sorry for the mixup
with sending the reply...

Daryl Bartley
[e-mail]
ray-tracing psychopath at large

##

Subject: glitches in large imagine pics
Date:  7 Jul 91 23:13 -0700
From: Andrew Niemann <[e-mail]>

Anyone else having this problem ? and maybe a solution ? :
    I've gotten to like doing slides from imagine renderings. I render
at 2400x1600 or larger, convert to Targa format using Rasterlink (the ONLY
program that will tackle  such a large file that I know of), and then take
these to a local graphics house that has a 4000x4000 film recorder.
    unfortunately the images often have color glitches across a largthem.
Sort of like psuedo color. Imagine 1.1 and an upgrade to Rasterlink seemed
to solve the problem. Except now it is back, not as often but on certain
images it just won't go away despite rerendering or other fooling around.

thanks,  andy

##

Subject: Re: Terminator 2...
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 91 11:10:44 EDT
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

Forgot to mention that you could certainly render your object over a plain
background and composite it into the video thus removing the step of
digitizing the normal camera view. This puts more of the burden on external
equipment which you may or may not own.
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  |
| --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   |
|      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   |
|     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   |
|                                                                          |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

##

Subject: Re: Terminator 2...
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 91 10:54:29 EDT
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

> Yes, it's me again...just saw T2:judgement day, and the INCREDIBLE
> graphics...got me to wondering just how closely something like that (note the
> 'something LIKE that', I don't mean replication!) could be approximated using
> Imagine or Lightwave, and how a large amount of morphing could be done like
> that. Also, any more ideas on getting mirrored objects into the 'real' world?

I haven't seen T2:judgement day but I have seen the previews of the cops
head stretching out to an elongated chrome blob. It is actually not that
difficult to duplicate this effect if you have a video disc recorder.
Ignoring the morphing part for the moment, here are the steps....
First, videotape the scene from the perspective of the chrome object with
the camera pointed toward where the real camera will be when that actual
scene is shot. This step is actually optional and is only necessary if
accurate reflections are critical to the scene (ussually not the case).
Then shoot the scene from the normal camera perspective. Unless you are able
to bring your video disc recorder on location, you will have to transfer
your "footage" to video disc. Once on the disc, you must frame by frame
digitize both the normal camera view and the view from the chrome blob's
perspective. These frames must match up fairly closely in terms of scene
timing. The digitized normal view becomes the animated background image
while the other digitzed view is the animated reflection map on the
object's surface. I have done tests of this in LightWave and the results
are outstanding. The morphing adds a little extra complexity. It is not
a simple morph but a combination of morphing and cross dissolves starting
with a real actor and dissolving into a computer model. LightWave's
object dissolve envelopes make this fairly easy.
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  |
| --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   |
|      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   |
|     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   |
|                                                                          |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

##

Subject: re: Terminator II
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 91 09:47:24 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Steven Lee Webb)

> Yes, it's me again...just saw T2:judgement day, and the INCREDIBLE
> graphics...got me to wondering just how closely something like that (note the
> 'something LIKE that', I don't mean replication!) could be approximated using
> Imagine or Lightwave, and how a large amount of morphing could be done like
> that. Also, any more ideas on getting mirrored objects into the 'real' world?

    Hey, dude!

        I just saw Terminator II this Friday, it was AWESOME!  (I especially
liked the part where "RoboCop" rose out of the checkerboard floor.  It seemed
to hold a bit of nastalgia for those of us other renderers. (re, the
checkerboard floor and all.)
        Anyway...  I watched the credits, and guess who was behind all those
great morphs?  Yep, you guessed it, LucasFilms' Industrial Light & Magic.
Of corse, a lot of the effects were the same as the water monster on ABYSE.
        Most of the morphs were done on a Silicon Graphics machine, and I've
asked impulse this question before, and they said that since the Amiga doesn't
support the MASSIVE geometry calculations needed to perform an any-pointed
object to another any-pointed object, only these simple "point-moving morphs"
will be possible.  (kinda a drag, huh?)  Oh well..

        About the 'renddering in a real environment' question, I'd have to say,
that in order to get true reflection, you'd have to take 6 (yes, count 'em,
SIX) brushmaps, and map them on to each side of a cube, and put your object in
the center of the cube.  Remember, you'd have to take a still of the ceiling,
the floor, and all of the walls.  That's about all I can think of.

        - Steven Webb
--
Only  ///|Steven Lee Webb  +---------------------------------------+  /\__Luxo|
Amiga/// |CSU - Comp. Sci. |  11-XAV a edisni deppart ma I !pleH   |  \\ /\ Jr|
 \\\///  |Amiga 500-5M Ram |     [e-mail]     |  /|/\ _  |
  \XX/   |50M Hard Drive   +---------------------------------------+ // \ (_) |

##

Subject: Re: Terminator II
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 91 16:04:15 EDT
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

Steven Webb writes:
>    I just saw Terminator II this Friday, it was AWESOME!  (I especially
>    Most of the morphs were done on a Silicon Graphics machine, and I've
>asked impulse this question before, and they said that since the Amiga doesn't
>support the MASSIVE geometry calculations needed to perform an any-pointed
>object to another any-pointed object, only these simple "point-moving morphs"
>will be possible.

However, most of the morphing you see on TV and in the movies use cross
fades rather than highly complex morphs. Here is a blurb from the article
I wrote for the August Amazing Computing. It is intended for LightWave users
but can be applied to your renderer of choice.

"Another limitation of morph is that the target object must essentially be
the source object with only the vertex locations altered.  In other words,
the target must be derived from the source with no points added or deleted.
Here once again, Object Dissolve can help out.  In this case, two morphs
occur simultaneously on top of one another while Object Dissolve smoothly
fades out one morph while fading in the other. Two objects must be created
in addition to the source and target. For object #1, you must manipulate
the source to fit the approximate shape and size of the target object without
adding or deleting points. Object #2 is merely the reverse operation to make
the target look like the source. The two simultaneous morphs performed
are source -> object #1 and object #2 -> target. Then dissolving the source
out and object #2 in will complete the illusion. Similar techniques have
been used recently for TV ads such as the mini van metamorphosis commercial
for Chrysler."

>      About the 'renddering in a real environment' question, I'd have to say,
>that in order to get true reflection, you'd have to take 6 (yes, count 'em,
>SIX) brushmaps, and map them on to each side of a cube, and put your object in
>the center of the cube.

True but a single view with a wide angle lense should be sufficient
especially when you consider how much the image will be distorted when
reflection mapped to the 'blobby' surface.
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  |
| --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   |
|      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   |
|     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   |
|                                                                          |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

##

Subject: Re: Terminator II
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 91 17:44:57 EDT
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

Daryl accidentally sent this to me instead of the list and asked if I
would forward it.

------- Forwarded Message
From: Daryl T. Bartley <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Terminator II

Wow! Thanks for the info...yes, I think that is actually how they did it for
T2, is take 6 views, and map them around the blob.

Hmm...as far as the morphing goes, some of it looked FAR too smooth to just be
video morphing. I am sure that is how they got from the chrome 'cop' to the
real actor (Most of the time, I saw one scene where it could have been ALL
comp)...but some of the morphs were just incredible. (The FLOOR!)

Oh, also, if they did in fact use the video morphing for all of it, there is
one scene where it stands up out of an elevator, in the 'humanoid' form (looks
like a chrome manikin), and starts running, morphing into first the chrome cop,
and then the color comes in over the chrome. Now, if they used video morphing,
how did they do it while making the thing run as well? Just some puzzlements.

But, however they did it, it was truly amazing. It was just so fluid!

Oh, and also thanks for the help with putting the object into the real world-
type-stuff. Should work fine, if I can get access to the equipment to do it
with. :)

Daryl Bartley
[e-mail]
watch out for those tile floors!

------- End of Forwarded Message

Just a quick comment. The cross dissolves I mentioned are done along with
standard morphing to give the appearance of a far more complicated morph
and many of these combination morph/dissolves may be done just to achieve
a single complex morph. Great stuff, I'll definately have to see the movie.
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
%     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

##

Subject: Re: Terminator II
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 91 15:31:17 PDT
From: Daryl T. Bartley <[e-mail]>

Oh, okay, multiple transitions for one morph...gads, it must have been a night
mare from the viewpoint of the people doing it, but it was worth it!
Thanks for clearing that up. ILM far surpassed the old bastion of computer anim
ation, (their own) the ever-oggled-at water creature from the abyss.

Oh, also, one more quick question: Has anyone been uploading stuff to hubcap
lately? New objects, pictures, anything? Just seems to have slowed down around
there recently.

Daryl Bartley
[e-mail]
Still .sigless? Get with it!

##

Subject: The Imagine Companion
Date:    Tue, 09 Jul 91 16:43 PDT
From: ivan i <[e-mail]>

i recently received The Imagine Companion, which is the manual we all should
have gotten with Imagine in the first place, from Dave Dubermann of Motion Blur
Publishing.  Has this been discussed before on the list?  if so, i won't waste
everyone's time with it, but if not, let me know and i'll post a review once
i get through the lion's share of it.

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
ivan ivanick
[e-mail]
Making The World Safe For Degeneracy Since 1965
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

##

Subject: World Size
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 91 19:53:30 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Rob Borsari)

I have been playing with scanline so long that I have forgoten how to set the
world size.  Please remind me.  (blushing)  -R-

##

Subject: Questions About Playing Speed
Date:    Tue, 09 Jul 91 15:40 PDT
From: ivan i <[e-mail]>

i'm new to computer animations & have only been playing around with them
since April when i got my 2000, but i do have a fair background in ink
& paint animations behind me; so i was a little surprised to find a
fundamental limitation in terms of how many frames per second i can get
with a decent sized animation.  i haven't clocked it, but it looks like
maybe 12 or 15 fps to me.  i understand the speed limitations, but this
seems to be a serious hindrance in terms of putting the work out on
tape, since i don't have access to a single frame recorder.  what, if
anything, are people doing to get the final output up to speed?  is it
something basic that i'm unaware of or is there hard/software to take
care of this?  are people just living with these limitations?  what's
the best speed that can be achieved on the Amiga itself for fully
raytraced animations without outputting it to tape?

ONE ANSWER:

for those of you who are interested & rich, my brother (who does 2D
stuff with both traditional cel animation & is working with the Mac's
Director software) is looking at buying a recordable videodisc player
from SONY for about $20K, i believe, which relieves this particular
problem but isn't feasible just now for me.  i'm not sure of all the
specs, but he said it can record up to 22 minutes per side, write-once.
maybe in a few years it will be down to only $15K.

incidentally, i've got a 68030 running, without a coprocessor (although
it's coming soon) and 3 MB of RAM. while i'm slowly cracking the
internal mysteries of the Amiga (my brain has been IBM-DOSsotted for too
many years) i haven't been able to figure out what's the best way to
increase my speeds for playing the animations.

thanks a bunch for any help.

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
ivan ivanick
[e-mail]
Making The World Safe For Degeneracy for Over 26 Years
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

##

Subject: fps
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 91 21:10:31 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Aaron Tucker)

    In DeluxePaint III, you have a choice of using compressed or
uncompressed animations. Compressed animations are animations that calculate
the difference between frames and only update that section. This can
obviously get slow with large changes. You can load in a compressed anim
from IMAGINE into DeluxePaint III as long as it conforms to the bitplane
depth specification of 1 to 5 in the correct resolution. I am not sure if
any of the HAM anim packages such as Spectracolor and ????(I forgot) will
allow uncompressed frames to be displayed.

    You can set the anim to be generated to conform to the needs of
DeluxePaint III or you can convert them to that format with ADPro. Whichever
way you go, it will still not look as good as HAM.

    The more memory the better. If you have an 030, congrats. Only buy
32bit memory (RAM for you accelerator board...there is no physical difference
in RAM). If you have a lot of 16-bit RAM, sell it, as it only slows you down.


Juan
[e-mail]

##

Subject: Memetic Poly-Alloy
Date: Fri,  5 Jul 91 20:53:38 CDT
From: mit-eddie!harvard!scubed!pro-party.cts.com!seanc (Sean Cunningham)

The memetic poly-alloy technique is VERY possible with the current batch of
software, such as Imagine.

My partner and I are working on it and the results have been very pleasing.
After I saw T2 for the "first" time I decided to get right on it.  Before I
went for the second time I had a completed animation that I showed to the
person I was going with to see it for the second time (note: they had not
seen the movie yet, so they had only glimpsed the effect from the
commercials).

"Neat," they said.

Well, I've had better comments, but I figured I'd wait until the same thing
happened in the movie.  As soon as the second termitator started to "gel"
that same person leaned over and said, "sh@*, that looks just like what you
just did!"

That's pretty convincing.  The key is to use a good image for an
environment map, and try as hard as possible not to have sharp edges on
your surfaces.

Sean
                                        /\
 RealWorld: Sean Cunningham            /  \     "Doing our business is what
      INET: [e-mail]   VISION                Amigas are for."
     Voice: [phone]             \  /
                                 //     \/      "Holy #@*!" - any Psygnosis
    KEEP THE COMPETITION UNDER \X/   GRAPHICS                   game player

##

Subject: NewImConEd avail on ab20
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1991 15:27:47 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Stephen Menzies)

A new version of Sheldon Arnst's  Imagine1.1 config file
editor is now available in the incoming/amiga directory on
ab20.larc.nasa.gov (128.155.23.64). You will find it
listed as newimconed.lzh

    This new version includeds a *very* friendly Function
Key Editor with print out capabilities. Any questions or reports
may be directed to me (e-mail) and I'll pass it on to Sheldon.

--stephen

--
Stephen Menzies
Email: [e-mail]

##

Subject: Re: Questions About Playing Speed
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 91 11:59:17 EDT
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

> i haven't clocked it, but it looks like
> maybe 12 or 15 fps to me.  i understand the speed limitations, but this
> seems to be a serious hindrance in terms of putting the work out on
> tape, since i don't have access to a single frame recorder.  what's
> the best speed that can be achieved on the Amiga itself for fully
> raytraced animations without outputting it to tape?

Actually no matter what your playback speed is, it can still be videotaped.
It just means that your video will be a little jerky. Single frame recording
is only necessary if you absolutely must have 30 fps and you are exceeding
the bandwidth capabilities of the Amiga. It is certainly feasible to play
HAM animation from Imagine at 30 fps but it requires that the frame to frame
deltas be kept to a reasonable level. Changing the lighting or moving the
camera are two almost sure ways to make your frame deltas unmanageable.

> looking at buying a recordable videodisc player
> from SONY for about $20K, i believe, which relieves this particular
> problem but isn't feasible just now for me.  i'm not sure of all the
> specs, but he said it can record up to 22 minutes per side, write-once.
> maybe in a few years it will be down to only $15K.

This unit has two separate components and if you look around, they can
be had for as low as $7K each bringing the price down to $14k today.
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  |
| --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   |
|      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   |
|     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   |
|                                                                          |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

##

Subject: Re: Questions About Playing Speed
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 91 18:50:01 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Bob Lindabury - SysAdm)

Mark Thompson <rutgers!westford.ccur.com!mark> writes:

> Actually no matter what your playback speed is, it can still be videotaped.
> It just means that your video will be a little jerky. Single frame recording
> is only necessary if you absolutely must have 30 fps and you are exceeding
> the bandwidth capabilities of the Amiga. It is certainly feasible to play
> HAM animation from Imagine at 30 fps but it requires that the frame to frame
> deltas be kept to a reasonable level. Changing the lighting or moving the
> camera are two almost sure ways to make your frame deltas unmanageable.

Heh.  The things that make frame deltas unmanageable are just the
items most animators use to create more realistic and dynamic 3d
animations.  Let's face it, if you want realism and playback speed,
you need some type of single frame device.  I guess DCTV is the next
best thing however.  You *must* have an 030 accelerator and a good
animation playback program for anything reasonably close to 30 fps.

> > looking at buying a recordable videodisc player

Aren't we all?!

> > from SONY for about $20K, i believe, which relieves this particular
> > problem but isn't feasible just now for me.  i'm not sure of all the
> > specs, but he said it can record up to 22 minutes per side, write-once.
> > maybe in a few years it will be down to only $15K.
>
> This unit has two separate components and if you look around, they can
> be had for as low as $7K each bringing the price down to $14k today.

Or for a total of 8K if you can find a used one. <grin>

-- Bob

 The Graphics BBS  908/469-0049  "It's better than a sharp stick in the eye!"
 ============================================================================
  InterNet: [e-mail]                | Raven Enterprises
      UUCP: ...rutgers!bobsbox!graphics!bobl      | 25 Raven Avenue
    BitNet: bobl%graphics.rent.com@pucc           | Piscataway, NJ 08854
    Home #: 908/560-7353                          | 908/271-8878

##

Subject: Single frame recorders..
Date: 10 Jul 91 23:15 -0500
From: "Jeff A. Bell" <[e-mail]>

Thought that someone on the Imagine mailing list might know something
about the following..

I'm seriously considering purchasing a single frame VTR within the next
year or so.  What sort of price range am I looking at?  I believe that
I saw a post from Mark Thompson in rec.video about a JVC model that was
to list for ~$2200.  Has JVC released this model?  Seems too good to be
true, as prices for other single frame VTR's tend to be much higher than
this.  What's the catch?  Would it really hold up to the strain of single
framing?

On a related note, if I'm willing to put up with a fair amount of hassle,
would it be possible to get by WITHOUT an animation controller?  I'm not
sure it would even be worth my while, since I believe Imagine does not
support controllers in any way, shape or form (please correct me if I'm
wrong..)

Any information on the above two items (and information on ANY somewhat
reasonably priced single frame VTR), would be greatly appreciated..

Babblebabble.  Sorry :)

Jeff
--
[e-mail]

##

Subject: Anims and Ianims
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 91 23:13 CDT
From: [e-mail] (Duane Fields)

I have trouble making stand alone Ianims.  Some help would be appreciated!
Also, is there a way to set a default speed for .anim files so you don't
have to force the timing using showanim? (Besides aliasing or a script)

Thanks much!

Duane Fields

##

Subject: Re: Questions About Playing Speed
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 91 23:22:13 CDT
From: mit-eddie!harvard!scubed!pro-party.cts.com!seanc (Sean Cunningham)

Actually, an '030 would only enhance playback speed of compressed
animations, such as ANIMs and PFX animations.

30fps is attainable on an unaccelerated A500 with the proper software, and
alot of memory.  Page flipping yields the best results of all "realtime"
animation techniques and can provide 30fps in interlaced resolutions, or
60fps in non-interlaced resolutions.

The trick is all frames to be displayed must be in memory, and the current
(displayed) frame must be in ChipMem.  The Director provides the necessary
tools to shuffle frames in and out of ChipMem from FastMem.

With the low cost of RAM these days, and the various inexpensive RAM cards
on the market, page flipping is still cheaper than single framing to a VTR.

Sean
                                        /\
 RealWorld: Sean Cunningham            /  \     "Doing our business is what
      INET: [e-mail]   VISION                Amigas are for."
     Voice: [phone]             \  /
                                 //     \/      "Holy #@*!" - any Psygnosis
    KEEP THE COMPETITION UNDER \X/   GRAPHICS                   game player

##

Subject: Re: Memetic Poly-Alloy
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 91 23:13:57 CDT
From: mit-eddie!harvard!scubed!pro-party.cts.com!seanc (Sean Cunningham)

So far all test renderings have been above 2.5M.  I've been working at
736x482 using PageFlipper/Plus FX to compile frames and DCTV for display.

I'm not going to release any stills and/or animations until I do some more
experimentation.  My partner and I are planning a fairly large project that
will make heavy use of this technique and will combine graphics with video.
If all goes well, it should be near completion by the end of the summer,
but we'll release some "teaser" frames and short anims to the public
domain.

One thing though, as someone pointed out earlier, Impulse needs to work on
their MORPH.  It stinks.  I don't buy Mr. Halvorson's excuse regarding
morphing between anything...long render times didn't scare people back when
all that was available was Sculpt 3D and the A1000, and with the '040s now
available, or soon to be, it should stop us now.  If time was a concern, I
don't think we'd be raytracing at all.

Sean
                                        /\
 RealWorld: Sean Cunningham            /  \     "Doing our business is what
      INET: [e-mail]   VISION                Amigas are for."
     Voice: [phone]             \  /
                                 //     \/      "Holy #@*!" - any Psygnosis
    KEEP THE COMPETITION UNDER \X/   GRAPHICS                   game player

##

Subject: Re: Single frame recorders..
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 91 10:56:07 EDT
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

> I'm seriously considering purchasing a single frame VTR within the next
> year or so.  What sort of price range am I looking at?  I believe that
> I saw a post from Mark Thompson in rec.video about a JVC model that was
> to list for ~$2200.  Has JVC released this model?  Seems too good to be
> true, as prices for other single frame VTR's tend to be much higher than
> this.  What's the catch?  Would it really hold up to the strain of single
> framing?

The catch is that the quality will most likely not be up to par with more
expensive units. I have not yet seen the JVC BR-S605U in action, but my
rep tells me that it is available. Some time when I get the chance I plan
to check it out. In the mean time, I pretty much rely on recordable video
discs. If anyone else has seen this baby do animation, I would love to
hear about it. As far as what to purchase goes, If you don't plan to buy
for another year yet, I would just hold off on any decisions now because
things are likely to change radically between now and then. The JVC unit is
probably only the first of a new breed of animation capable products for the
prosumer video market.

> On a related note, if I'm willing to put up with a fair amount of hassle,
> would it be possible to get by WITHOUT an animation controller?

Only if you don't mind HASSLE written in 25 foot letters because it is a
major ordeal. Your best bet for avoiding the expense of an animation
controller is either buying a video recorder that does not need one (like
the BR-S605U or recordable video disc units) or build an interface to the
VCR controller input and write your own code (can be tricky). Of course,
if you only do about 4 seconds of animation a year, you might not mind
doing it manually :-)
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  |
| --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   |
|      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   |
|     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   |
|                                                                          |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

##

Subject: Re: Avoiding intro picture?
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 91 14:16:40 -0500
From: Donald Richard Tillery Jr <[e-mail]>

Well, I was able to figure out a hack for 1.0, but when 1.1 came out, they
had foiled my technique.  If you want the old one, I'll give it to you, but
it's totally useless for 1.1.  Sorry.

Rick Tillery ([e-mail])

##

Subject: opening screen
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 91 14:37:47 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Aaron Tucker)

In IMAGINE 1.0, you can use Rick's shortcut which works great. If you have 1.1,
(get it if you don't).....you can't use Rick's trick. What you can do, however,
is use a program like Rasterlink, PixMate, or ADPro to convert it to a 1 or
2 bitplane image. This reduces file size and speeds things up considerably.

Have fun.

Juan
[e-mail]

##

Subject: brush color mapping problems
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 91 15:02:02 MDT
From: [e-mail] (Brian Ridout)

Hi all,

I have just started on this list again so please forgive me if
this quistion has been over done.

I am trying to render a scene of a room.  The walls, floor and throw rugs
are planes, or disks with a iff brush for the pattern.  When I do the
test traces using scanline it works fine.  but, when I use trace the walls
are invisible.  I have tried several ways of placinf the axis of the
brush on the object but I can't seem to get it to work.

Does any one have the difinative procedures for brush mapping?

Any help would be apreciated.

Thanks

Brian Ridout

##

Subject: anim, Ianim, and wb2.0
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 91 23:54 MST
From: "Vax Headroom (Dave E Martin)" <[e-mail]>

a. Is playIanim freely distributable?

b. what are the (dis)advantages of anim vs. ianm?
   Ianm seems to use much more diskspace than anim, does ianm use compression?

c. Where can I get an anim player that works properly on the A3000 with
   wb2.0?  The only one I've found so far that works right is the one in
   amigavision.

TiA

Dave

##

Subject: Re: Memetic Poly-Alloy
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 91 21:45:23 CDT
From: mit-eddie!harvard!scubed!pro-party.cts.com!seanc (Sean Cunningham)

OOPS...my last message SHOULD have said that it SHOULDN'T stop us now.

Sorry.

Sean
                                        /\
 RealWorld: Sean Cunningham            /  \     "Doing our business is what
      INET: [e-mail]   VISION                Amigas are for."
     Voice: [phone]             \  /
                                 //     \/      "Hasta lavista, baby."
    KEEP THE COMPETITION UNDER \X/   GRAPHICS         the Terminator, CSM101

##

Subject: Re: anim, Ianim, and wb2.0
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 91 11:47:46 -0500
From: Donald Richard Tillery Jr <[e-mail]>

SuperView 3.1 is a good anim player.  You might notice a bit of a glitch
showing Imagine anims though.  This is the only source that has the glitch
with SV, and David is working dilligently to fix it.  I uploaded SV3.1 to
ab20 a while back.  Give it a try (I use it under 2.0 daily).

Rick Tillery ([e-mail])

##

Subject: Avoiding the intro pic in 1.1
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 91 17:24 CDT
From: [e-mail] (Duane Fields)

No problem, just load "Imagin.pic" into Deluxe Paint (or whatever), and clear
the screen.  Now save over.  What you have is a blank picture with the same
pallette as before! Loading time is next to nothing!

Duane

##

Subject: Re: anim, Ianim, and wb2.0
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 91 11:53:51 CDT
From: mit-eddie!harvard!scubed!pro-party.cts.com!seanc (Sean Cunningham)

ShowAnim works, and has always worked...I don't know what the latest
release is, but I've been using the one that comes with VS2.0 for over a
year now (quick and dirty).

CryoTools' VIEW also works, and lets you alter your screen settings while
the animation is playing.  If you're using DCTV, this one is probubly the
best to use for straight ANIM files.

Hash's DISPLAY, which I believe is PD, is by far the most complex and
nicest of the anim players I've ever seen.  Tons of commands for
playback...and it's also fully compatible with WB/KS v2.03.

So far, MOVIE is the only player that I've had problems with, but it's more
for Sculpt's format.

Sean
                                        /\
 RealWorld: Sean Cunningham            /  \     "Doing our business is what
      INET: [e-mail]   VISION                Amigas are for."
     Voice: [phone]             \  /
                                 //     \/      "Hasta lavista, baby."
    KEEP THE COMPETITION UNDER \X/   GRAPHICS         the Terminator, CSM101

##

Subject: mirrors
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 91 20:11:55 EET DST
From: Juha Kallioinen <[e-mail]>

Hi imaginets and imaginetters :)

I have a problem with creating mirrors; I can't make them reflective ...
Does anyone have good attributes for a mirror on the wall..

Thanks.

[e-mail]
Juha Kallioinen

##

Subject: Re: Avoiding the intro pic in 1.1
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 91 12:53:29 -0500
From: Donald Richard Tillery Jr <[e-mail]>

I've tried that and it doesn't seem to work right for me.  I didn't try TOO
hard though...maybe later.

Rick Tillery ([e-mail])

##

Subject: Film Recorders
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 91 11:14:49 PDT
From: Christopher Seguine <[e-mail]>

   I am currently in the market to purchase a film recorder to jack into the
amiga to record images from imagine and lightwave...... One of the 4000 line
ones like the polaroid....I would be real interested in hearing anyones
experiences with the different ones that are on the market..... I will be
mainly be using it with a 16 mm back but the option for a 35 mm back would be
great....

  Thanx

Christopher

##

Subject: Getting rid of the 1.1 intro screen
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 91 14:15:45 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Aaron Tucker)

Well, you can't really get rid of it. What you want to do is reduce the amount
of data in the picture, but retain the same number of bitplanes. I might have
posted earlier to reduce the number of bitplanes to 2, but what I meant was
reduce the number of colors to 2. You can go into DeluxePaint and clear the
screen, or change it to two colors. What I did was go into PixMate and turned
off bitplanes 1, 2, and 3. I left #4 so it would save it as a 4 bitplane
image, but with only 2 colors. This gives an even worse image of the letters
imagine, but it loads much faster and gives you a sort of time guage as to
when it is done instead of just a clear screen.


Juan Trevino
[e-mail]

##

Subject: Ship
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 91 02:20:23 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Rob Borsari)

I will post a pic of my Cruser to hubcap.  I tried on sat night but hubcap
was very slow and seemed to have problems accepting my put.  I think
a partial file may have been left.  I wll try to delete it and get the
full one up as soon as possible.  Sorry to anyone who got the bad file.
-R-
[e-mail]  Rob Borsari
:

##

Subject: Re: mirrors
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 91 15:18:46 EDT
From: [e-mail]

Juha Kallioinen asks how to make mirrors.

The trick with mirrors (or especially chrome-like objects) is not
setting the attributes of the mirror correctly, but making sure that
the environment is set up so something will be reflected into the camera.

If a mirror is TOO reflective, the mirror can actually become invisible!
This is because the mirror's own flat glass/metal flat coloring is
overwhelmed by all the reflected light. You see a PERFECT reflected
image, so the object itself isn't shown. This is especially true with
flat mirrors.

Some attributes that give a nice mirror polish:

Color: RGB= 150 150 170
Reflect RGB= 200 200 210  (a bit of a blue tint)
Transparency 0 0 0
Specular 255 255 255
Hardness 255
Rough=0
shiny=0

Again, the important part is that you should make sure the mirror is reflecting
something into the camera. A scene with just a camera, a mirror, and a
ground in it is awfully boring..... :-)

-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
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